Episode 27: Cigar Play with Daddy T

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Craig Hello, welcome to the Kinky Boys podcast. I'm Craig.

Arzurh And I'm Arzer.

Craig And today we will be talking about all the aspects of cigar play. I'm very excited about this and I'm pleased to announce we have a very wonderful guest, the president of the Manchester Leatherman, Sir Tony.

Tony Hi guys. Hi.

Arzurh Pleasure to have you with me.

Tony Thank you. Nice to be here.

Craig Thank you. I've been wanting you on for a while and yes, so we're here to talk about cigar play. But first, why don't you tell us a bit about yourself? Who are you? How long have you been in the scene?

Tony Okay, so I'm Tony, otherwise known as Daddy T. I've been on the leather scene for over 20 years. Let's put it that way. I started at quite a young age in London. So started when London had a fantastic leather scene. So when we had the Colchrane, we had the original block, the LA, the Anvil. Later on we had hoist which started off in one one arch so yeah i've been around the leather scene for a few years always see it being very much dominant at the top so even though i started at quite a young age so sort of cigar play falls in with that really nicely brilliant.

Craig So how did you first get into cigar play was it something that's always been there or

Tony Did you was.

Craig It one of those fetishes where you experience it or see it and you think oh i i'd quite like to try that But

Tony To be honest, it's interesting because my dad was a heavy smoker in terms of cigarettes. So any form of smoking never really liked. It was never really a turn on for me. I actually didn't get into even smoking with girls until quite close to my 40th birthday. And it was, I was drunk out with friends, smoking, and I said, let me try one. And it was, for me, what was interesting about him, because I was, I've always been a very anti-smoking person. Eventually, my dad died of health complications due to the smoking. It was something that really, really against. So never really saw it as a fetish. Never really interested me. Yet, as soon as I picked up a cigar, especially in leather, it just, the two just go together so well. And quite quickly, when you're in full leather smoking cigars, it seemed to attract boys who like smoking cigars.

Arzurh Funny how that works

Tony It is it's a bit weird how that works isn't it and so the first thing for me was finding that boys would like to do things like lick my boots while i'm while i was smoking and and the fact that i was smoking was a big turnover so in terms of my first intensive play it was very much really basic i'll smoke while you do stuff to me and i'm guessing that's how most people get into it so whereas you know later on you can there's lots of other stuff that you can do with cigars but at first it's more what people would do to you why you spent oh yeah i mean.

Craig It's such a classic leatherman visual just you know the full bluff bluff gear and just smoking away on the big rolled up cigar it it's a very charged image you

Tony Know it's it's something I think that I sort of, a lot of my leather fetish, my leather fantasies come from the fact that, believe it or not, my parents ran a country and Western club.

Arzurh So I'm sorry to laugh as an American. It's always when someone says we have a country and Western bar in London, it always is like there's actually a British pub in California that I've been to. And I'm like, this feels a little like crossing the streams.

Tony It is a bit. Oh, for massive country and Western fans. And they used to have pretty much every other week a different band, country and Western band staying at the house. So the house would be full of big bears, often wearing leather waistcoats and sometimes chaps. Yeah, I wonder where my taste comes from. Yeah, so leather and cigars is something that's, for me, that's always gone together.

Craig Brilliant. So when did you start shifting away from just the visual of it and actually using them in play? I mean, how did that start? Did you learn from someone?

Tony No i don't think it was such a sort of conscious decision i i think the first time that i ashed a boy was the fact that i was smoking and fucking him and my ash fell on his back i think that was the discovery point and because he really enjoyed it you're eager he's exactly it's one of those and then you sort of realize that actually this is really hot and the fact that the more i use he's back as an ashtray, then the hard he's provided me. So, you know, we're sweeping the game together.

Craig That sounds like a nice visual. And one thing about visuals I've always wanted to ask. So, is a cigar always just a cigar? To very badly misquote Freud.

Tony Oh, oh god. Freudian psychology. Never ask a behavioral psychologist about Freudian psychology.

Arzurh Would you prefer if we pivoted to Jung instead?

Tony No, Skinner. That's awesome. Please, at least, Pavlov, when we go into conditioning, we've gone off on a completely wrong tack here, haven't we? It's a singular family.

Arzurh It's very dear to our heart. Anyway, my boy is a psychologist. He has his doctorate. And believe it or not, he is right now sitting for his licensure exam. So it's very timely.

Craig I mean, I would like to have your boy on sometime to talk about this. And Tony, you as well, since you have a background in psychology, I would love to do a whole episode just dedicated to the psychology behind king confetti in general

Tony Okay wouldn't have it sounds.

Arzurh Like a good it sounds like a good episode in the making

Tony Just let me have one.

Craig But yeah i mean do you think it is basically a big visual metaphor because i can't help feeling this because i always see people especially on the internet they always seem to go for the huge cigar and i've actually come across people that photoshop the cigars to look bigger than they actually are and i just can't get away from okay i think we all know what's going on here and

Arzurh I have a friend who's into cigar play i have seen him put cigars into his mouth where literally i i wondered how he's able to breathe at all it's about jawbreaker

Tony Size yeah they're generally what he gave they they they look almost comedic it's is it a phallic symbol i think it's more, personally it's not phallic to me although even i've used cigars to fuck hoys with and so i don't see it necessarily as a phallic symbol in any it's just but maybe that's just what my brain works i don't see people eating bananas as a as a phallic thing either it's just a banana but i think it's the i think it's the the the larger the cigar to an extent because sometimes they do start to the larger the cigar it looks more manly or aesthetically pleasing because if you smaller cigars especially historically tended to be spoken by ladies yeah.

Arzurh Like cigarillos and the like

Tony Absolutely so effeminate it was so the larger the cigar therefore more masculinity i think if there's a there's a connection to masculinity the larger the hit with large cigars yeah.

Craig I mean classically in society cigars have been some statuses of power you know you have the business men and the rich

Tony Yeah and they were largest larger gauge cigars yeah rather than cigarello well this.

Arzurh Actually uh brings us up to uh our next question so you you have these cigars of varying sizes and uh one would assume varying qualities we've gone a bit over hot ash what What other types of activities do you typically engage with, like smoke exchange, for example?

Tony Yes, smoke exchange is one of my favorite things to do with cigars. And there's so many ways to do that. Obviously, there's mouth to mouth, which is very common. And while you're basically kissing, snogging. You can have a mouthful of smoke and at the end of it, you both blow that smoke out and that's really hot. Oh yes. And then you've got the other ways of doing it, which are more forced ways of doing it. So things like simply a gas mask with a tube and make it boys smoke through that. That can become really heavy, really quickly. So depending on the boy's ability and how used they are to doing that, you will send a boy green very quickly. Clean if you do that and they're not used to it and unless you're into puke play it's probably not going to be the scene that you've been looking for but so it also becomes a form of breath control at that point because the the smoke itself is actually reducing the amount of oxygen and therefore by reducing the amount of oxygen you get a high from it and one of the things that lots of people don't realize is the actual not just the the nicotine buzz that you get from smoking cigars but it's also slightly reducing the malaroxin. You get a little bit of a high from that as well. And cigar smoking as a smoker, what you get out of it is, yes, it's the look, it's the taste of it, but it's also, it gives you such a nice buzz. And so if you want that to play, it's not enough of a buzz to stop you being able to think clearly. So it's not going to affect your ability as a topist and it's not going to affect. Scent, but at the same time, it can give the player a really nice buzz and a really good feeling. So, but yeah, so, so any form of sharing of smoke, whether that's mouth to mouth or any form of apparatus where you've got them, it's very sexy. So again, it's, and that can be both ends. I've, I've had boys where I've put spectrums up them and blown hot smoke up their ass as well well they can hold that the.

Arzurh One and only good context to blow smoke up someone's ass

Tony Yeah maybe i just took the same to you literally but yeah so in terms of the in terms of i think there's three parts to cigars there's obviously the physical cigar itself and that that the smell of that the feel of that the the insertion of that is part of the play there's the the smoke and how you can have someone take that smoke into their body whether that be through the nose through their mouth through their anus and then you put the ash and ash is really when you start to look at ash is the hot warmer ash putting that on the body is a sensation play putting that on your boots dropping ash on your boots and making your boy lick that off your boots that's about the taste the feel of the ash and also the feeling being controlled and made to do something that's quite that's very submissive being it by being made to lick ash off someone's boot that they've just dropped on their boot so it's so sweet it's really in terms of play it's those three parts of cigars that you get to play with now.

Arzurh We're talking about cigars in sort of a generic way right now. Are there any sort of brand or types that are better for certain activities than others?

Tony So when you start to talk about brands and type, cigars are a bit like wine it's about it's about the flavor it's about the body of them and and that means it's a lot of it's very individual people actually enjoy what people like is very individual so and even down to you can take the same cigar and at a different level of humidity it will taste different so you you then get into the different types of cigars but also how moist you keep those cigars because that in a game will change the flavor there are general rules of thumb the two things about cigars that to bear in mind if you're choosing cigars as i said it's about taste as a rule of thumb the darker the cigar the stronger the flavor there are exceptions to that but the most part that's you if you pick up a cigar and it's a really dark cigar and you can smell it it's almost chocolatey probably if you're new to cigars that may be a little strong for where you want to start the other thing about cigars is the gauge it's the size of the cigar and you said. About the you know the huge gauges and and some of those are you know they're very difficult to find now in fact one of the major manufacturers that actually stopped making them the 140 gauges when most when you look at most cigar guys smoking the larger cigars they tend to be 70 80 gauge and basically what that means i talk about gauge it means how many times a cigar is rolled so okay so basically the old myth of them being rolled on virgin's knees is a myth and they're rolled on a piece of leather or the hand-rolled ones and but how many times that you roll the cigar in in the tobacco is literally the the gauge that we're talking about So when you talk about the larger gauges, most people who spend larger gauges will be 70 or 80 gauge because that's a really nice, and that's my favorite gauge. 70 is my favorite brand personally. I like Asylum, Asylum 13. It gets those for me, that's the, in terms of flavor, in terms of size, they're fantastic. Um, it depends what, what are the things that will vary as well is where the, where in the world you are, because it's what you can get hold of and also price. So one of the things that here in the UK, trying to get hold of cigars, largely aged cigars is virtually impossible without importing them. And even if you when you do get hold of cigars the actual cost of them in the uk is horrendous they are red they expensive.

Arzurh Well that's the case just about everywhere though it's the whole idea of the the quote-unquote syntax which is not a programming thing but but rather an attempt to assign a financial cost to behaviors that society finds to be either detrimental or suboptimal in some way. I know that because here in Washington state, they imposed a tax on hard liquor that's so high, it adds about 30% to the value of any hard liquor product you buy. And you really don't want to know how much cannabis is taxed at. Cannabis is taxed at an astronomical rate. So tobacco is in that family of things that sort of The Oliver Cromwell set seems to feel should be financially de-incentivized.

Tony We're the same here.

Craig Yeah, the UK is largely very much the same.

Tony But in terms of, if you think about Europe, Europe is not really that dissimilar to America. Whereas in Europe, you can go from country to country and the taxes vary in the same way that you can go from state to state. So I know in, for example, in Illinois, people drive across to Michigan because the tax on tobacco is so much lower than it is in Illinois. And so it does in the same way I import my cigars from Germany because the tax on cigars in Germany is much, much lower. And because it's within Europe, I don't have to pay import taxes.

Arzurh That brings up an interesting point I hadn't considered. Are there any outlets you would recommend as being better for purchasing cigars than others? Terms of pricing or availability?

Tony I mean, personally, I use Seiko, which is the Hamburger Cigarren. It's an online shop based in Germany. As I say, I import them from them because I don't have to pay the tax. I've used Atlantic cigars based in the US. The trouble is then you get, If the tax man finds you that you're in trying to import them, we are heavily taxed on them. So to be honest, it really is about, in terms of whichever country you're in, asking around, trying to find out, recommend. And I mean, the U.S. is interesting as well because it seems to, I used to travel across the U.S. in my last job this year. I actually managed to my 25th state, so I'm halfway through. and Louisiana. It seems to vary from state to state in how easy or hard it is to get larger gauge cigars. And I think that's affected by the tax, but it's also affected by the culture. Texas, for example, it's really easy to get much larger gauge cigars because it's much more part of the Texan culture. Whereas if you go up to Washington State, it's much harder to get larger gauge cigars.

Arzurh There's there's an there's an odd correlation in this uh country between how liberal a state is and how hard it is to get a hold of things that people find to be scientifically uh bad for your health it's very odd the more liberal they are the more restrictive they are

Tony Yeah i'm not yeah and that's probably why you've got to a point where it's very restrictive and uh Yeah, it's, you know, so let's say it's, for me, it's, it, it really is about asking around whichever country you're based in. If you're based in, you're, I'll say that the website uses, you know, I'll spell it for you, it's H-A-C-I-C-O dot, um, they've been really good. I, I get my, um, my sign-up schizos from them. Um, I pay around 70 euros for box 20, which for us is really cheap, really cheap. Um. It's, it really, and again, I found that out from, from recommendations from friends. So really it's about just trying to find out from friends where they get their cigars. If you see someone's big cigar and you like the look of it, ask what it's, what brand it is, ask where they get it from. It's a great way of sparking up a conversation. And it's also a great way of learning more about cigars and, and different people's tastes. If you try if you buy thinking of buying a box of cigars i'd always suggesting ordering a single one first try it before you buy it because you don't want to end up buying a box of large gauge cigars especially if you're new to smoking cigars and you and i say smoking cigars not smoking cigarettes because it's entirely different but if you're new to smoking cigars then you probably want to start on a smaller gauge, you probably want to try the cigar first to see if you could, if you actually like it. And so buy a single, get it delivered. And then if you like it, go buy a box, but it's, it's a much better way of doing it. And when you do start, do start on the smaller gauges. So if you don't, if you're, if you, you probably wouldn't want to go as low as something like a Cigarello, but maybe something like a Churchill, maybe a 64 gauge and, and also shorter. So you're talking four inches rather than say seven inches. So in the smaller and shorter, what that does is enable you to just build up your tolerance of the tobacco, tolerance of the taste. And again, as I say, it's very different from cigar smoking, so cigarette smoking. And whenever you see, you can always tell a cigarette smoker when they first start smoking a cigar because they'll try and smoke it like they do a cigarette. And basically choke within seconds because they're trying to take all of that smoke into their lungs in the way that they do with the cigarette. And then, and their lungs can't cope with it. And whereas cigar smokers smoke, take the smoke into their, into their mouth, a certain small amount will end up in the lungs. But the majority of it's, it's about flavor, it's about the taste. So it's, it's more about, it's more in the mouth than it is in the lungs.

Arzurh I would imagine that also decreases your risk of lung cancer.

Tony Decreases your risk of lung cancer, it can increase your risk of totems where life is, you know, life increases your risk of dying.

Arzurh By a hundred percent, I'm told.

Tony I remember I've done Chinese martial arts all my life and my old Taoist teacher of mine said, if you gave up drinking, gave up having sex so much, gave up smoking, you'd live longer. And my response was, yes, but why would I want to? i.

Craig Think the best way i've heard it put is you end up existing longer but you're not living longer

Tony Exactly yeah now.

Craig I've been learning from you and your boy

Tony About how.

Craig To get started cigars and a lot of the websites i've seen offer selection packs

Tony Yep with.

Craig All the different flavors would you recommend like say after you've had your first cigar you've decided you you do like it you want to try it with those selection packs be a like the next point on just to see which flavors you like

Tony Absolutely and again ask for ask for recommendations for people ask what they like ask what they've tried and it's that expression yes tuck it and see you've got to try it let's see what see what you like but even with the selection packs again smaller gauge shorter ones if possible build up your tolerance to it before you start you don't want to go and buy a selection pack of 70 gauges some you know seven seven inches long 70 gauges and then fight you never And I think they've smoked one of them without turning green. And I say that because I've seen friends do that. And it's almost, for one of them, it almost put him off smoking cigars. And so, because he wanted to smoke the same cigars that we were smoking. And that's nice. But at the same time, realistically, it's like anything. Your body has to build up a tolerance to it. Your body has to be able to adapt. And so jumping in the deep end isn't going to help and it's not, it's not going to be pleasant when you're turning green. Never.

Craig I imagine not. I think that's a good point to bring up. So a lot of people do where they swallow ash. Is that something you have to learn and practice?

Tony So let's be, just to be clear about when you say swallow ash. So I mentioned about things like licking ash off of someone's boots. Yep. That's very cold ash. That's very different to taking hot ash. So again, there's a difference between the two. The great thing about ash is it's very inert. It's burnt. it's not you know you're not going to catch anything from ash because it's literally sterile because it's been burnt so that's the good side the the thing about ash when you're first learning to take her um it's about having a lot of liquid in your mouth it's not said it's it's a bit like sure you've seen fire eaters and how they're able to take you know put balls of fire out into in their mouth because they've got a lot of licking in their mouth that's the trick to it and so taking ash is it's no different what ash will do to your mouth very quickly is dry your mouth out especially if you're saying licking ash off boots um so you've got to keep washing your mouth through whether you're washing mouth through with water or just saliva but it's keeping your mouth, quite moist because otherwise you you'll be like a cat coughing up a furball quite quickly.

Arzurh Yeah not so hot

Tony It's not really no but in terms of and again getting used to take ash if i if i know a boy is is experienced at taking ash i'm gonna be far less careful about the ash that i give them i'm not saying i'm gonna you know i'm not gonna be putting a cigar out on their tongue but if a boy is very new to it i'm gonna be giving them really really you know cold ash just to get used to being able to take that in their mouth and say thank you for it, of course.

Craig Of course.

Tony But in terms of, um, it's, it's like any, any kink, you can take it to extremes and some people want very hot ash to a point of, some people want to be burned by the cigar. Um, in the same way that some people play with, with cigarettes and want to be burned with cigarettes. It's not my thing. You know, I'm not going to yuck for these yum, if that's what it's consensual and it, it tickles their pickle. But it's not something that i do but so i'm i want the boy to take the ash i want the boy to enjoy the ash but i'm not looking to burn the boy and cause any lasting damage and that's and some of that is also about knowing how how much the boy can take for their experiences so they know how to keep enough moisture in them to stop that from burning them brilliant.

Craig I think that should lead us nicely on to we always like to talk about safety aspects and go through a big list of the checklist of the do's and don'ts and what you've got to be careful so obviously we've covered the fact that ash is hot and you're dealing with potential burning of the skin or whatever and you know it's basically heat play

Tony Yeah can be yes yes not always but it can be and but it's when you're flicking ash the thing is to to make the more that the ash is spread out.

Arzurh The more it is,

Tony It's less likely to burn. So if you flick ash over a boy's back, say you're fucking them and you flick ash over their back, that ash, in terms of sensation play, will make them feel hot, but it's not enough to burn them because it cools down really quickly, because it's broken up into small pieces.

Craig So a lot like wax play then, even though it gives the sensation of heat because of the rate it

Tony Cools and disperses.

Craig It makes it quite safe

Tony Yeah exactly and again but if you if you if you put a large clump of very hot ash on someone's back that's going to burn they may want that that's about consent in terms of so when i'm ashing it's about spreading that hot ash over them because they'll get that initial sense of heat but it goes really quickly and it's not even enough i'm i like body i like bears it's not enough the chair you won't you won't be you know getting that, singed bear smell it's not gonna it's not gonna do anything like that so.

Arzurh So not like when i wander into the kitchen

Tony No it shouldn't it shouldn't unless you're unless it's what you want and it's by consent let's say doesn't tickle my pickle so.

Craig One thing we've wondered is is it best to ask if they have any health conditions, like with their lungs, say asthma before play. Cause I imagine it would be quite an irritant if like you're doing breath play and smoke play with them and they suddenly start having an asthma attack.

Tony Absolutely. Of course. I mean, it's like any form of BDSM. It's about communication. It's about consent and you know, knowing that someone has a health issue is very useful. It doesn't stop you playing. It may change how you play so you may not want to do you may not want to give someone smoke through a gas mask if they've got asthma problems but then there's nothing to stop them licking ash off your boots for example you just play in a different way and and of course it's the aesthetic thing as well so they may not want to unknown boys who don't want to take the smoke they're not into having that you can't not even medical reasons they just don't like to take the smoke but at the same time they love to you know to lick us those boots or something while they're smoking and that's for them that's a very different kink but it's still the cigar play if you want is still involved in that kink but it's just it's more aesthetic than it is tactile or or you know they're actually coming into contact with the cigar itself or the smoke or the ash so it really does depend on what people are into, what terms are on about cigars. And also, you're right, any health issues have to be discussed in the same way they would be if you've, in any other form of BDSM. Nice.

Craig So in the States, I know there's a big event called Smoke Out.

Tony Yes, fantastic.

Craig Have you been?

Tony I have. It's held in Las Vegas and it's about 600 guys. They hire out one of the, a venue called, and off the top of my head, it's Alexis Park. It's opposite the Hard Rock Cafe Hotel. So it's very close to Strip and on the Strip. Really nice venue. There's a lot of guys, especially directly into American affairs, soaking cigars. Yeah, I would highly recommend it. Yeah. Really hot it really really hot and.

Craig Does the uk or europe have a sort of equivalent

Tony So we have smoking nights so for example back in london has one we've had some in manchester we don't have a smoking event in the same way that is i think smoke out is almost quite unique in that but at the same time you will find at any large event you will find people smoking cigars, So whether that's Folsom Europe, whether it's Manchester Leather Weekend, in any large event in Europe, you're going to find people smoking cigars in the same way as you do in the US. It's, I think there's a more, it's interesting because it's, again, it goes, when you, whenever you go to the US, depending on which area you're in, it seems to, it seems to be more and less prevalent. So I was at, I was in, I've got the name's gone out of my head. new orleans for god.

Craig Mardi gras that's the only thing i associate with new orleans

Arzurh Oh wait there's another there's another event too i'm i think i know the one you mean it's not mardi gras

Tony No it's people.

Arzurh Used to come back to texas all the time and tell me about it now completely blanked on it

Tony Wow i'm getting old completely if you don't know what it's called anyway so that what was interesting thing was going there this year how few people I saw smoking cigars it just and how many people came up to me and were talking about the fact that I was smoking a cigar and that's it's just again I think it seems to be different parts of the U.S. Seems to be more common than others and I think I think like everywhere the the health effects of smoking mostly from cigarettes has percolated into the culture and it's people start seeing people smoking and therefore big cigars and just think that's just a lung disease, lung cancer waiting to happen really and, And I think there's also a lot of preconceptions around cigar smokers and cigar playing.

Arzurh Not to interrupt, but by the way, the event we were trying to remember is Southern Decadence.

Tony You should remember it. I'd say I was there this year. I missed three days because I was transferring flights in Houston. And I just, sorry, I just couldn't remember the event.

Arzurh Yeah, Houston has a comparable event, by the way. Louis, let us entertain you.

Tony Oh, really? Comparable to smoke care?

Arzurh Well, comparable to Southern Decadence.

Tony It's coming to the US, not just for the big bears, but less of them. But yeah, as I say, it seems to be different places you go to in places in the US. Whereas I think in Europe, maybe because it's smaller, you go to any of the leather, particularly leather events, and there will be guys smoking cigars. It seems to be less favorable in rubber. and i think that's because a hot ash smoke you know hot ash and rubber don't tend to go very well together and also smoking outside in rubber in cold weather doesn't seem to go very well either rubber.

Arzurh Can also hold smells too

Tony Yeah that's true so so does leather actually that's some another part of cigar play that i i should have mentioned is the leather gloves yeah the smell of leather the gloves where you've been smoking cigars. I literally have had a guy who I started to gom him in a play club in Birmingham. And he basically went, I'm sorry, I'm done. He's shot in his pants.

Craig Wow.

Tony Just from the combination of the smell of leather and cigar.

Arzurh Achievement unlocked.

Craig I mean, it's a gorgeous, gorgeous smell when a guy has smoky gloves.

Tony Yeah.

Craig I, as you can tell, I am one of these people that it just really gets me. I mean, I'm very scent based in general. So leather, cigar smoke, it all.

Arzurh Yeah.

Tony Yeah. I don't know why that didn't look good for me earlier, but yes, it's that, that gombing. If guys are into gombing, then adding that smoke to the leather really, really does, I think heighten that smell and make it even stronger and I think the heat also brings out the smell of the leather so the leather smell is stronger combine that with the smell of cigars, and the smell of cigarettes is disgusting it's horrible to me I think a lot of people find this smell of cigarettes horrible but the number of people when you're smoking cigars who will literally come up to you and and I love the smell of cigars couldn't smoke one I love the smell of them oh.

Craig Yeah cigars basically use the actual leaf whereas from what i understand cigarettes basically use the plant equivalent of lips and arseholes

Tony That is.

Arzurh One plant i never want to

Tony See right out there, nothing but sell arseholes uh the other thing about cigarettes is that they're full of chemicals cigars are in the most part have far less chemicals than the natural tobacco and so then the tobacco can have chemicals on it obviously from the spraying etc but the actual they're not adding chem to the tobacco when it's rolled whereas cigarettes we have and you know a lot of chemicals that actually add to that smell and that's why it's quite much more civic a cigar obviously cigar smoke is much more a lot of people have very fond memories of cigar smoke so for none of the people i've met it's been smoking things like christmas because their dad or their granddad will smoke a cigar christmas and so it can even smoke really strong memories from their past for.

Craig Me oddly enough it's my grandmother

Tony Okay she.

Craig Used to smoke big cigars when i was younger

Tony I mean it's really cool for.

Arzurh Me it's just every bar i have i have ever been in every leather bar with the well not odd exception of massachusetts massachusetts bars are practically smoke-free for the most part even when i was younger you would not get cigars as often and then i moved to dallas and it's it's like oxygen it's everywhere okay

Craig So can you smoke indoors in your state

Arzurh Varies. Most of the states that still allow you to smoke indoors are in the South. Again, it's that whole, the more liberal a state is, the more restrictive it tends to be. Oddly enough, Texas, some of the cities like Dallas started to say, hey, take it out to the patio. But example here in the Portland, Oregon area, they actually don't have a route per se to the back room. They've actually made it so that it's like covered-ish, but it opens up to the sky which you would think is not a great tactical decision in a place where it remains all the time but that lets them get around the law then they say no no no i know that's a room i know it's connected it's got kind of a roof but as you can see you can look up and see the clouds and everything that's a patio and then they yeah

Craig You find some places in england doing that because obviously we've had a smoking ban for quite a while back in my hometown there was quite a fancy hotel. And they had a smoking room that they could get away with because it was technically a yurt, which was a non-permanent tent-like structure with an open hole in the middle.

Arzurh Yeah, that's actually, as you may or may not know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, former governor of California, was very big on cigars. But of course, when he was governor, he couldn't have them inside. So he arranged to have a tent like that set up outside of the building so he could go out with others and partake I

Craig Mean Tony you probably know more than me you can smoke in a designated sampling area yes

Tony So you do get some cigar shops have cigar rooms smoking rooms, They, they seem to get around that law by no employees being in that area when people are actually smoking because the smoking laws that were brought in, weren't brought in to protect the drinkers in a bar. They were brought in to protect the staff. So, they, that, that by having no staff in that area within a private members club, you, they sort of skirting around it, but it's not an easy thing to maintain. And it's not an easy you couldn't do it say in a bar because it's the the law starts to say that you have it has to be outside and they've even tightened up on what their definition was because so many bars started to have very sort of rooms and again but but when you start to look at europe, overall it varies tremendously just look in berlin for example you'll have bars which are not have smoking rooms so you've got prince connect which has a smoking room at the back You've got New Action. It has a New Action, which you can smoke everywhere. You've got smoking cigars. You've got Munchpunz, which has a smoking room at the back. So it varies. Literally, the rules. Schoenner is smoking everywhere. So it depends bar to bar. So there are the same laws because they're European laws, but they apply differently in different countries. So, wow. I love the fact that there are bars in Berlin where you can smoke and do smoke play. It's fantastic. and the reaction is fantastic for that. Such a sex...

Craig Oh, yes.

Tony And that's why they hold smoke out in Vegas, because Vegas is one of the few states now where smoking indoors in bars is permitted.

Arzurh Yeah, Vegas has a lot of laws like that for a variety of reasons, but my friend Bob goes to smoke out every year and has a fantastic time.

Craig Yeah, so is there anything else to cover or...?

Tony So, you get the list, storage?

Craig Yeah, sure. Okay. So... So say you've got a cigar collection going, what do you need to know to store them properly?

Tony Moisture. That's the big thing when it comes to storing cigars. Cigars will dry out quite quickly if you don't keep them moist. So if you're talking about a few cigars, then your periods, you can keep them in specialist packages, which have a piece of cardboard in the back bits of permeable plastic. Looking to start a cigar collection, especially if you're going to start buying, You talked about mixed packs of cigars, so you're going to be buying boxes or numbers of cigars at a time. It is definitely worth investing in a humidor. You can get them very cheaply. They're not, they used to be very much a status symbol. They'd become far more common and therefore they'd become much, much cheaper. You can get them off eBay, so really reasonable amounts. And they are definitely worth the investments. Without without a humidor a cigar will go from a beautiful thing to smoke to a twig that will burn really quick you might as well just smoke a piece of rolled up newspaper, it's really it will have no pleasure it will have no taste and it will be pointless and and you probably won't get to smoke it all because it will be cracking as you smoke it and you know It just becomes unmanaged.

Arzurh A waste of investment, so to speak.

Tony Absolutely. So when you start to think, to talk about, there's two ways of keeping them moist. Most humidors have basically a little plastic tub. Those are filled with silica gel, Oasis, the green stuff they've got flowers in. Yeah, that basically is something that will hold the water and release it. And you use distilled water. Therefore, you're not building up any, any calcium within the, within the, the humidor. So they're pretty straightforward. You can get gel packs. I'll be honest. I've not had a great deal, some great experience with gel packs. I've had other people who rave about them. Maybe I haven't tried the right brands, but it's, so I'm still old fashioned. Can just keep pouring in my distilled water just check it at least once a week and then you start to talk about how much do you want it and again this will affect the flavor of the cigars and yeah not that again.

Arzurh Sorry he said

Tony Yeah um that will affect the flavor of the cigar so um most people are somewhere between 60 and 80 i'm bang in the middle i try and keep mine around 70 it's not an uncommon number it's probably the most common percentage in terms of sense humidity so it it you've got to find a way a good way to keep them because without a good humidor they won't last very long and you would have completely wasted your money and if you then start smoking them you'll probably become very disappointed very quickly especially if you're a beginner and you start thinking why do people smoke these they're disgusting it's it is i say definitely worth investing in a humidor. The other things to invest in are a good cigar lighter. You can get them quite cheaply. I've seen them in the US, really nice ones, about five dollars in cigar shops. What you want is a cigar lighter that looks more like you could make creme brulee with it.

Craig Yes, they are mini blow torches.

Tony They are. Right.

Arzurh And from what I've heard, cigar cutters are absolutely the worst thing you can do to light your cigar. You cut the end and then light it with a standard lighter, doesn't that just damage the cigar?

Tony Depends on the size of the cigar. So in terms of, there's two ways to prepare your cigar. Obviously, cigar comes with an open end and a closed end. The closed end, you want to be able to get oxygen through because that's the end that's going to go in your mouth. There's two ways of getting oxygen through, and that's either a cutter or a punch. And they do what they say on the tin. really one cuts the end one punches a hole in it with smaller size cigars you have to cut them you can't punch them they're virtually impossible to punch and they're certainly very awkward to punch with larger gauge cigars you want to you want to punch them because to cut them they tend to unravel more but again cutting and punching is often it's more about personal preference i.

Craig Have heard it

Tony Does affect.

Craig The flavor because what i've heard i don't know how true this is obviously i'm not that experienced when you punch it obviously makes a much smaller hole which concentrates the smoke

Tony Yes and.

Craig Intensifies the flavor

Tony Is that true.

Craig Would you say

Tony Um yes it does and and again this is also it means that if you're newer to it if you're beginning starting on a smaller gauge which you have to cut makes it much gentler and a much easier smoke so it's, some of it is experimentation to see what your taste is which you prefer in terms of humidity in terms of cutting the the trick with the lighting of a cigar as i say is to use a really good cigar lighter which is a jet lighter you can get you can get them in single double or triple I tend to use a triple jet because I use, I prefer wider gauge cigars. To light the cigar, firstly, you'll see people holding a cigar and lighting the end before they put it in their mouth. The reason for that is you want to make sure that you've lit the cigar. Edges of the cigar quite evenly because if you catch if you don't actually catch one of those edges obviously it's not going to burn evenly so by being able to catch all of the edges around first then put in your mouth then breathe through to halt to get some oxygen coming through and then finish off lighting it and you'll see that as people do that they will often turn the cigar and again this is to make sure that your cigar is being made evenly because you want the cigar to burn and if it's got it's going to have any chance of doing that first and and also as you smoke cigar again continuing to and um one of the things that you'll see doing as well to start smoking cigar smoking it might like uh.

Craig Sorry tony you've gone very quiet and broken yeah

Arzurh Same on this end as well

Tony Sorry maybe you're back back okay so let's show where you got to so i'm saying about when you when people are um lighting a cigar you'll often see them they'll burn the edge of the cigar first and then they'll bring it in their mouth and they'll they'll finish it off actually while they're smoking it again sometimes turning it to make sure that it's lit evenly and And the reason for this is because you want the cigar to be lit evenly, so it burns evenly. But some cigars, as you're burning them, as you're smoking them, they won't quite burn quite evenly. You may get a lip. So sometimes you'll see people pulling out a cigar just to take that little lip off. Again, that's encouraging the cigar to continue from that point to burn more evenly. So I'm actually just... If you're interested in getting into cigars, just watching how people like their cigars, how they maintain their cigar burning. It's a really great way of just being able to pick these little tricks up. And the other resource that's really good for this, obviously, is YouTube. YouTube's great for if you want to learn about anything. And there are some really good short videos on YouTube around how to cut your cigar, how to maintain your cigars, how to smoke them. It is any form of BDSM it's about understanding the equipment that you're using how to apply that and then the discussion and consent and cigar play is no different it really is about understanding the cigar it's about understanding the equipment that you're going to use whether that be a punch or a cutter using the right type lighter and then understanding how that cigar is burning. And what are you going to do during that play are you going to flick ash onto your boots and have them lick it off are you going to be getting them to smoke take your smoke are you going to get start to get heavier you're going to start to ash them how heavy can they take that how hot, can they take the ash the more you spread the ash over the more it's going to give an instant feel of heat but not it's not going to burn them and then so it's about the consent It's about understanding what their ability is and even down to an understanding how much they've taken cigar smoke before. But as I say, if they've, if they've never taken cigar smoke and you put them in a gas mask and start feeding them lots of cigar smoke, you may have to clean your gas mask out afterwards because it's not going to be. So as a, as a top start off like for yourself, start off with smaller gauges, shorter sizes, get used to smoking it get used to lighting it get used to the feel of it and it's the same with playing if someone's new to it start them offline, start them off easy and then let them build up.

Craig Brilliant well thank you so much for coming on our show today i've learned so much and i look forward to trying out all of this

Arzurh Knowledge you can

Tony Use that's what it's about.

Craig Oh yes so if our listeners wish to contact us our email twitter and facebook will be in the show notes you can contact me personally on twitter at craigthemouse and you can contact me on mastodon at bootbackclub at kinky.business

Arzurh And i am at arzer on kinky.business and you can find me on telegram as at artairdl feel free to send me a message thank

Craig You tony how can people reach you

Tony The easiest way is through twitter i'm at daddy with the the a is a four so it's d4 ddy underscore t so that's brilliant if anybody has any questions just drop me a message more than happy to help yes.

Craig And until next time happy smoking