88: Cow and Bull Roleplay

Craig: Are you looking for a

picturesque getaway for your vacation?

Then look no further than the

Kinky Boy's Ranch and Creamery.

Here in the lee of a picturesque ridge,

lies a small, unpretentious, hew cow farm

that pampers its herd like its own Bebes.

Hi, I'm Craig, and if you like

creamy produce and beef, then our

ranch is the perfect place for you.

You can see first hand how we

treat our cattle, be they the

breeding bulls in their fully

equipped gym facility like Ochnurb.

Adam NYC, Hairy Hypnotist and Brian C.

Or you can tour our world class

milking facility where our cows get

pumped for their delicious cream.

like Banjo Stewie, Slim Leather,

Southern Suter and Forever Bulking.

come on down to the Kinky Boys

Ranch for your next big day out.

Find out more at patreon.

com forward slash kinky boys podcast.

From that introduction, you

may have figured out the

topic we are covering today.

Cow and bull play.

With me, we have returning co host

after a bit of an absence, Adam.

Adam: Hello, you're going to

notice the change in accent after

far too many years in America?

Craig: Yes.

Yes.

That's the only change people

are noticing with you right now.

Those who can see the camera.

So to give an audio description,

Adam is in full cow gear.

He has the horns.

He has the ear.

He has the oversized piercing nose

ring, a bell and an adorable top on.

Oh, And the cow tag cattle tag earring.

that other voice is our other guest,

Mindfuck, welcome to the show.

Mnfcuk: Thank you so much for having me.

Craig: Hey, so yeah you may have

recognized him, you've also been in

front of the camera on, I believe it

was the, what's the safe word, show?

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

Yep.

Craig: Yeah.

So tell us a bit about yourself.

Who are you?

What do you do?

What do you do to people?

Mnfcuk: Yeah, well, I I generally

am a big hypno person, right?

Like I'm a big hypnosis fetishist.

Craig: Love that on this show.

Mnfcuk: my, that's kind of

my general, my general thing.

But I'm also with, with a specific

interest in like muscle growth,

bull transformation like livestock

mindset, that kind of thing.

That's been a big big interest of mine.

So it's a perfect topic for the show.

And I'm excited to hear your,

your thoughts on it as well.

Craig: Yes.

I mean, it's been

growing rapidly recently.

Like every year, whenever we do the sort

of predictions for the kink crowd the

last three years running, I have said

bull and cow play will become a big thing.

And I've just been a little bit too early.

And I think this is the year it's finally

really starting to like hit, I don't want

to say mainstream consciousness, but sort

of the wider community consciousness.

Adam: It does seem to

Mnfcuk: starting to move

into the mainstream.

Confuciusness.

Craig: There will be a lot

of puns for this episode.

Adam: Yeah, that one.

Craig: actually had people

write in about that.

So,

so let's start right at the

top for those who don't know,

what is bull and or cow play?

Adam: Mindfuck, would

you like to go first?

Mnfcuk: Sure, I was gonna say, I

was just gonna say, does the one

dressed up in this adorable little cow

wanna, it feels like an interception

to steal this answer from you.

But yeah, I'd say bull and cow

plate is A roleplay situation kind

of similar to pup play or to age

play where you are going into the

headspace of a beast of burden, right?

So you're kind of going into this really

animalistic, primal headspace and that

can involve a lot of different things.

That can involve muscle growth,

meaning like your body is like

swelling and growing and you're

becoming this big, bulky thing.

That can involve, you know, obviously

hypnosis that could be like dumbing

your brain down to just be, you know,

a big dumb cow and then you on the

other flip side of that will often have

either like a sir, a dom, a ranch hand

as with many you know kink dynamics,

you have kind of that flip side,

you have a dom and you have a sub.

And so cow and bull play, I think

has been around for, you know,

a really, a really long time.

It might just.

Be gaining verbiage right now, which,

for all intents and purposes, kind

of, you know, makes it a thing.

People might have been doing it, but not

necessarily understanding that that's

what it was, that that was turning them

on about that specific kind of role play.

You know,

Adam: Yeah the only thing I was going

to add was just, like, talking about

some of the headspace for it, because

having done a lot of pup play, having

done a fair amount of, like, bull and

cow stuff, it's got a lot of overlap, but

there is some slight difference as well.

With the pup play side, you're much more,

like, emotional, much more devoted, much

more You're slightly more switched on.

You're still, like, able to

think enough to process commands,

do tricks, that sort of thing.

You're still playful, you're still,

like, figuring out what to do, engaging

in initiative, that sort of thing.

With the cow and the bull stuff, it's much

more like, reactive, if that makes sense.

Much more instinctual, much more emotive.

You don't really have the brain power

necessary to go through playing,

doing tricks for your handler.

It's much more like, this is what

I have to do in this moment, and

it is just this moment in my head.

And there's a lot of release to that.

And it is a lot of fun.

You have a lot more of the like

growth, focus, certainly, and you do

have a lot of like either the body

focus in the sense of like just the

full testosterone poisoned brain.

If you're in the bull mindset or the

please for the love of God mount me, I

am desperate in like the cow mindset and.

Again, there's a lot of fun to that too.

It is a slightly different flavor of

primal animal role play to pup play.

Craig: yeah, like from what I've seen,

it's a much more, like you said, not

quite passive, but you don't have to

think as much and it's very, you are

the big lumbering beast of burden and

you sort of had the two separates,

which we're going to talk about into

a second about like, like bull and

cow aren't quite the same thing in the

headspace terms how it's sort of treated.

And we're going to get into that.

So, yeah, let's talk about what

separates a bull from a cow.

Adam: So, I have dipped my hand into both,

and for me there's the bodily aspects

and there is the personality aspects.

For the bodily aspects,

Mnfcuk: hand into both cows and bulls.

Adam: well, yeah, I

mean, there have been, yeah, nope, I have.

Anyway, moving on.

So, for the personality aspect,

you just think of like the

traits you associate with bulbs.

You've got like the power, the

ferocity, relentless horniness.

You've got like the protective,

strong willed, stubborn, virile,

fuck anything with a whole mindset.

And likewise, if you think more of the

traits you associate with a cow, it's

much more like docile, empty headed,

not a thought behind those eyes,

easily led, easily manipulated, will

follow anyone with a handful of food,

some soothing words, and a head pat.

End.

Yeah, it's very much like, at least

from my experience, your mileage may

vary, it's almost sort of a Dom Sub,

but from the animal perspective.

It's more of the power dynamic, and

it's the personality that comes with it.

And likewise, there is the bodily aspect.

The bulls, from my experience,

tend to be much more muscular

focused, much more cock focused.

And the cows tend to be much more, your

tits, your nipples, your Your whole.

Maybe your udder being milked.

And that's, again, you've got much

more of the like, top bottom from

the primal animal perspective.

It's, it's weird to describe

being a dom sub that doesn't

fit, even though it kind of fits.

Craig: yeah, like, bull has this

weird sort of crossover where

it's used sort of almost in three.

Ways in the kink scene,

Adam: Hmm.

Craig: bull to describe the gay body type

in the same way we have bears and twinks

and otters bull tends to be basically

the power lifter build where it's sort of

like real huge muscle bear with a big gut,

Adam: Hi.

Craig: you know,

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

Craig: Hey!

Yeah.

And it is like, in that respect, it's

often tied with sort of that testosterone,

like you said, testosterone poisoned,

muscular virile, really need to fuck,

which also ties into the like the

other one, which is in cuckolding.

the person coming in doing the cuckolding

is typically called the bull because

they are bigger, stronger, more virile.

So is, is that thing of associating

the idea of a bull with virality?

And I find it fascinating having bulls

as subs because you just have that

mental image, or at least I do, of like.

a normal sized Dom with like the big

lumbering massive bull subbing behind him,

Adam: There is a lot of fun.

Craig: image that I really enjoy for the

contrast and the defying of expectations.

Adam: So one of the one of the

most fun aspects about that is

actually the gigantic septum ring.

They do serve more than

just an aesthetic purpose.

Just like with an actual bowl, you hook

your nose through it, or you stick a

clip on it, you feel the vulnerability.

This is not a strong bit of your body,

and you know that a single harsh tug

and you will be on the floor screaming.

And so you obey.

It takes the slightest pull, and

your head is following immediately.

It's,

Craig: Oh, yeah.

Adam: it's an incredibly

vulnerable headspace that you

are instantly brought into.

And if

Mnfcuk: said,

Adam: you get that power transfer, you

can have the skinniest twink imaginable

pulling the biggest body, the biggest

power lifter in the building, and

there will not be a goddamn thing

the power lifter can do about it.

Mnfcuk: that being said, under

no circumstances, should you ever

take a septum ring as consent,

like do not go to a bar and hat,

just go up and touch somebody.

Never grab somebody's collar.

Never grab somebody's septum ring.

I've seen it happen at the Eagle

here in SF, and it's not fun.

don't be that person.

So,

Craig: Yeah.

That's like such a basic thing to do.

It's the same as like, so often people

come up and just grab the nipples and

immediately twist to 11 and it's like, no.

Ooh.

Why, why is this such a common problem?

Adam: No.

Craig: Yeah, I mean, we actually

talked about this on the body

modification episode with Rugga, who

is actually another huge bull player,

like, and I want to have him on

sometime to also discuss this topic.

But yeah, he talked about like,

Piercings can be, especially nose

piercings can be used to pull around.

Do try and gauge up before you try this

because there is the lovely term cheese

wiring where the pressure is too small and

the piercing essentially cheese wires out

through the flesh and you don't want that.

So you want a nice big thick

gauge in before you try this.

Adam: For the viewers.

Mnfcuk: term for me.

There

Adam: It is just enough that it goes down

to my upper lip and you can fit a finger

through the middle quite comfortably.

Craig: Yes.

Adam: is an excellent size for it.

Also really good for carabiners.

Craig: Yes.

Oh, I've not thought of

that, but that's quite cool.

But

Adam: Gotta get the rope?

Craig: Comparison my one, if you've seen

a photo of me or can see the video, is

literally just a 10 gauge at the minute,

and you can definitely see the difference.

Adam: I wouldn't.

Mnfcuk: weird though.

Cause a lot of people that don't have

piercings don't know like the, the

lower the gauge, larger the actual thing

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: think, Oh, the higher it

goes, you know, the bigger it is

like, no, actually the lower it goes.

The bigger it is.

Craig: Yeah, because the biggest

size is like double zero, I think.

Adam: Once you go past the

double zero, they start just

measuring it in millimeters.

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: Crazy.

Hot.

Craig: Yeah.

Cause yeah.

Mnfcuk: I say as somebody with

no piercings or tattoos yet!

Craig: Yeah.

Adam: It's fine, you've got

Craig: a,

Adam: time.

Craig: it's a journey.

Like finally my nipple piercings

are finally healed after a year.

Adam: Oh my god, how long did that take?

A

Craig: Well, roughly eight months

and then I kept screwing up with them

because they kept catching on everything.

Adam: little break, I'm so sorry.

Craig: no!

Next I've got to swap to rings, which

will take a little more healing, probably.

And

Adam: Mm hmm.

Craig: want to upsize them.

Because, again, like, they

keep catching and, yeah.

Heh heh

Adam: Oh god, it's gonna

take you this thing to me

Craig: heh.

Mnfcuk: a high traffic area with

all those milking machines though.

Craig: So Yeah, milking is a good point.

So how does cow, what's

the cow head space?

Like we've, we've talked about it,

but I want to go in depth on this

just because I like hearing about it.

Mnfcuk: defer to the actual, to the,

to the more cow of the two of us.

Adam: So again for me personally your

mileage may vary it is Again, it's

much more primal much less intellectual

must much less proactive much more

docile much more reactive Much more

submissive in a sense of there is so

much fog in my head Literally can't think

I will just do what you tell

me to, I will lead where you,

I will follow where you lead.

But there is still the bodily needs, and

it does go from desire through to need.

If you do start using chastity as well

as like cowplay, Oh my fucking god.

After a few weeks not being able to milk

myself, I am climbing the fucking walls.

I will do anything, hook me the fuck up.

fuck up to that machine.

You do get incredibly hole hungry,

and yes, the nipple focus is

real, as is just like the grabbing

and kneading of your pecs.

It is a very touch focused headspace.

It is a very, like,

sensory headspace.

if that makes sense.

You don't have enough going on in

your head for it to be much more than

sensory, reactive, desires, needs.

And

Mnfcuk: Absolutely.

Adam: there is, if you go down that route,

there is a lot of the oral fixation.

The stereotype of the cow continually

chewing, well, it's not just chewing

that feeds the orals and fixation.

You can get a lot of pleasure out

of that in other ways too, but.

Also, I will ask Mindfuck because you have

been putting boys into these headspaces.

What have I missed?

Mnfcuk: No, I think that's I think

that's a great, a great summary.

I think for a lot of a lot of cows

as well, there is, yeah, that,

that big whole focus of just being

essentially like a slab of meat, right?

So a lot of that headspace.

itself to extremes, right?

So it'll lend itself to being

like like, like progression.

It's like, we always want to be

being pushed into something, always

want to be led into something.

And so for a lot of people that will

line up with like fisting and whole

stretching, that's a huge common thing, I

think, for both cows and bulls actually.

And so that, that could be a

really fun headspace to play

with because it's already such a.

vulnerable thing, right?

Much in the same way as like grabbing

someone by the septum piercing.

It's like, okay, well you literally have

my body completely under your control.

Right?

Like, cause when someone's hand is

inside you, it's like, okay, I've really

got to be, you know, conscious of how

they're moving and how I'm moving.

And it can be this really beautiful kind

of back and forth, when someone's in that

really, yeah, primal, primal head space.

I think in the same way, as you

mentioned who like just the reassuring

touch of having like your pecs played

with, or having someone like rub

the muscles in your ass, like it

can be this This energetic exchange

that's really really, really special.

So on a physical level,

Craig: Yeah.

Yeah.

Mnfcuk: a mental level

that you can also do that.

Like long distance, just getting

someone dumber and dumber and dumber

and having them sit on toys for you,

having them, you know, lock up for

you, having them go to the gym and

report in with their diet, reporting

in with their workout for the day.

Like that's all all about control.

Craig: And that is hot.

And again, it seems to have this through

theme of maximizing, so maximizing your

Adam: Bigger.

More.

All way.

Craig: yeah, maximizing your

hole, maximizing your tits.

Like, it's a maximalist form of play.

Mnfcuk: Yeah, absolutely.

Adam: Oh, I'm sorry.

Craig: yeah, that's funny.

And you talking about like massaging

the tits just made me think of

that myth around Wagyu beef.

Adam: Yes.

Craig: Wagyu beef is like some of the

most expensive cuts of beef in the

world, famous for Japanese cows, and one

of the sort of industry myths they put

around about it is the cows are extremely

pampered and like, they had daily body

massages from the farm hands, like

complete myth, but like, you know, it

was used to upsell and price up the meat.

Mnfcuk: That's a fantasy that

I'm trying to live as a cow.

Oh my God.

I want to be

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: pampered cow.

Yes, please.

Adam: Hold on, I've got the

massage gun in the next room.

I'll bring it out.

Mnfcuk: What are your,

your, your all ears?

Oh, wait, nevermind.

Craig: So yeah, I mean, this kind of

gets into our next topic, which is like

how the sort of roles are used in play.

And I feel like we're

already covering that.

Mnfcuk: sure.

Yeah.

I mean, I think it is like kind of like

we were saying, it's very similar to

other styles of kink play where there

is kind of these two sides of the same

coin, right and giving yourself to

someone or as a dom kind of lending

your, your skill set to owning someone

or leading someone through what you know

is going to be satisfying to them, right?

One thing with, with bull and cow

play, I think especially though

that's worth mentioning is, There's

this saying that goes around that

the best doms were once subs, right?

Or at least for that specific activity,

like don't, don't say you're going

to flog someone and having never been

flogged before, or, you know, like

you want to, you want to make sure

that, you know what you're doing.

And so you can, you can kind of

lead someone through the paces.

And with, with, cow and bull play,

I think a lot of the time, the best,

the best doms are people who share

that fetish, who have gone into that

headspace many, many times themselves.

Because if you can kind of have a,

you know to do list, like whenever I'm

starting a scene, I always kind of like

to have a mental checklist of like,

okay, like, what are, what are the things

that I would like to have done to me?

What do I think that shares in common

with what this person probably wants to

experience and how do I lead them through

that in the most satisfying way possible?

So that's one thing that's, I think,

yeah, pretty specific to, to bowl

and cow plays that you benefit a

lot from, from enjoying both sides.

Adam: I will add

Craig: Like,

Adam: that you, to be a fisting top

does not necessarily require having

been a fisting bottom, however, do

please look up an anatomy textbook

just for that bit of the body.

You do want to know where your hand

is going to be going, what it's going

to be meeting, where the good bits

are, where the painful bits are, where

the thing you push to make the cow

bellow so loud that the neighbors hear.

Yeah.

That sort of thing.

You don't necessarily have to have spent

all, like, three years training your hull

to be able to do it yourself, but you do

need to have some requisite knowledge.

You can mess this up.

Craig: yeah.

And when we say mess it up, like

fisting, you can do some serious damage

if you are not careful in that area.

Adam: Mm hmm.

Craig: I think because of how common

the imagery for it has become, people

forget how extreme you have to put.

Situation you have to put the body

in for that, which again, like.

Like BDSM is all about extreme

situations in a lot of ways.

But yeah, just do know what you're

doing and know what, to be safe with it.

I don't think we've actually

done a fisting episode so far.

Well, that's going on the list.

Mnfcuk: One interesting thing that you

said too, how often it's portrayed.

I think that we see it all the time, you

know, on social media and everything.

But one thing that is also really specific

to the cow and bull headspace is how often

it is portrayed in art, in fantasy, right?

Because is one of those things that

like rapid muscle gain, rapid rapid

weight gain This kind of extreme

transformation thing is not necessarily

something that's possible in reality.

And that's where I think for me

personally, I love really talented artists

that can bring some of these fantasies

into something that I can at least look

at or read kind of like a, you know,

illustrative kind of erotica situation.

And that's also another one that's,

that's, that's interesting and

specific to bull and cow play, I'd

say much more than other fetishes.

So there's kind of this fun,

whimsical quality to it, right?

In the same way that, like, there's,

you know, these wonderful ear tags that

you're wearing that SpacePupSilver made.

Incredible, right?

Like, there's this, there's this fun

quality to it that I, that I love so much.

Adam: It is very easy.

Mnfcuk: Yeah, if you're curious,

I'd say look at some bull and bull

and cow art because that can kind

of explain play that we're talking

about maybe a little bit more too.

Adam: Spiral Stories, DeviantArt, MCC

Mnfcuk: yeah,

Adam: Stories.

Excuse me, I'll be in my bunk.

So, I have something I need

to look up later, apparently.

Mm hmm.

Craig: stories.

And it was a coach turning all his

staff, like lifting team into like

human cattle and like, you know, they

got dumbed down as they got bigger

and just got forced a feeding tube

while being milked on the other end.

Mnfcuk: absolutely hot.

Ha ha ha ha.

Craig: the thing.

If someone came up to me and said, Okay,

your role for the rest of your life

will just be to eat, get fucked, be

milked, and just be really strong and

pretty and have people grope you, I'd

be like, Sounds like a fair exchange.

It's a hard life, but

I'd be willing to do it.

Mnfcuk: Have you seen that video that's

been making the rounds from that movie

The Creamery, where it's like, for this

movie is that like, all the men on earth

have had this virus, and so there's only

like, a few men left, and so they get

rounded up and put in this basement,

and they're all strapped down and like,

milked with screens in front of them that

are like, constantly stimulating them.

think

Craig: Oh

Mnfcuk: way that like the Violet

Beauregard Willy Wonka thing for like

inflation, like some people, that's

their spider bite, I think that scene,

making the rounds in front of millions

and millions of people on Twitter

is also the spider bite for a lot of

people's bowl slash milking fetish.

Craig: yeah.

You've not seen it?

Oh, it's been around so much.

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

Craig: And I think that touches on

another aspect, which is like, we talk

about it in the personal individual

sense, but again, there's also sort

of the industrial side of it where

like, you know, cows on this day and

age are milked on an industrial scale.

And often people have that.

Fancy of being in a facility where

they're chained up with other men, just

being constantly pumped and milked.

again, it's that you are part of a

herd, camaraderie, but you're also

lesser because you're just cattle.

So you're just there for what you can

produce and just like be trapped there

in place being milked all the time.

Mnfcuk: Extremely hot.

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: hot.

Yeah.

That's, that's like a long term fantasy

for me someday would be to like buy a cute

little parcel of land and then just have,

have my, my ranch house kind of fantasy.

Someday we'll get there.

Craig: Oh yeah.

Adam: Feel very affordable.

Mnfcuk: No, it'll just be me like

with a glass of Chardonnay upstairs

listening to like the whimpers and

moos and cries from downstairs.

Ah, we made it.

Yes.

Craig: I want to talk about, because

role play fetishes tend to have

intersecting lines with other fetishes.

So I think we can go through a few

of like what other forms of play

go well with cow and bull play.

I mean, the big one is Hehehehe

Adam: because if I start,

I'm not gonna stop.

Craig: hmm

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

I mean, there are, there

are so so many, right?

Like, I think that the first one that

my brain goes to is definitely Hypno,

just because I feel like it, is one of

the things that I really appreciate.

You know, fetishize so much.

And I feel like it's this headspace

thing, like being a bull, being

a cow, changing your lifestyle,

being programmed to be like this.

This, this beast of burden,

that's a real thing.

Gaining and muscle growth, right?

That kind of can lead

to that getting bigger.

Chastity is a big one, right?

Like being, being locked up and having

like no control over your own body.

Again, I feel like this is all about

having like modifications made to

your body as this big beast and having

like this, this dominant come in and

saying, okay, well, I'm going to put.

I'm going to put a piercing here.

I'm going to put a

restricting device here.

I'm going to change this part

of your lifestyle, you know It's

kind of like a humiliation thing.

Sometimes it can be like, Oh,

being led around as this big, big,

big guy by this little tiny guy.

Like there's kind of this, you

know, mental thing about that.

And then the other one that

I would like to specifically

mention is big bulges, right?

Like, I don't know if

Craig: Yeah,

Mnfcuk: livestock or cows Having

like gigantic balls, right?

Like a bowl that is just

Craig: yeah,

Mnfcuk: between their legs,

like this big hanging sack,

like that's a huge one for me.

I think that's super hot.

I've been getting into

pumping a lot lately.

And I feel like the, the response from

that on Twitter has been like a lot

of people being like, what, like, I

didn't know that you could even do that.

But that kind of goes hand in

hand with saline, which is also

a super safe option, right?

And then the much more dangerous silicone,

right, which is permanent comes with

its whole own risks and stuff, but

Craig: yeah, I'm, I'm going to

interject and say here, like the

official policy of the kinky boys

podcast is there is basically a

high fatality rate with silicone.

So we advise people to stay

with saline and pumping because

they are the safer options.

Sorry, just to, just to do

the legal and disclaimer.

Mnfcuk: agree.

Anyway, I'll pass the,

pass the baton off to you.

Adam: That having been said, you do

absolutely see within the Silicon

community a very high representation

of your bulls and your cows within it.

A lot of people who get the bulge

also develop the interest in, Oh,

hey, there's this awesome bull.

Awesome roleplay that I get to do

that heavily features this, but yeah,

you've covered most of my list as well

Obviously there is the furries like this

is basically how I discovered it in the

first place and then it just sort of like

had several false starts before finally

going, Oh wait, no, actually, yes, please.

Milking, obviously,

pet players, obviously.

We've covered the body mods, but

you also get the body paint option.

You will see a lot of people either with

just regular body paint or the liquid

latex going for the cow print look.

It is hot as fuck.

Fuck.

Especially if you're

Craig: sounds

Adam: not with the hypnose

because it really gets the

transformation headspace into you.

when you look into the mirror and

you don't see yourself looking back.

You get like the farmer fetish, you

get the outdoor fetish you get, I

have seen within the gainer community

there is a lot of interest within the

burping and like farting communities.

Absolutely love this.

You Get the objectification, like

you said, being reduced to a piece

of meat, an object, property,

just a number, not a name.

You get What else was on my list?

I wrote so much fucking down.

Oh, yeah, and we did talk

about fisting as well.

Obviously, you've got your farmer

boys with their shoulder length

gloves going into the cow and, you

know, that's a look, that's a

vibe, that is an experience.

Oh my god, keep

Mnfcuk: the horse speculum!

Adam: of a human headspace that

they can still use the poppers.

Trying to take a fist using just conscious

muscle control in a like barn setting.

That was an experience.

I was very impressed I managed to do it.

Craig: Mm hmm.

Adam: proud I managed to do it.

Oh my god, that was intense.

Keep the poppers handy.

Craig: Yes.

Adam: yeah, no, you can

integrate so much into this.

And you can even do like the soft stuff.

Like we have seen the TikToks and the

Instagram reels of cow therapy, of

having just the huge, heavy, comfy

beast just long head onto you and just

like, Oh no, I am forced to be cuddled.

Oh no, how terrible.

My relaxation is being thrust upon me.

The various worries of day to day life

and all of the stresses, I am pinned

in place by this great beast and must

be forced to have soft, comfy time.

This is also very fun to add.

You get some of the inflation fetish

especially if you start looking at

the websites that produce rubber

for the straight fetish community.

Because Cowplay has been so

focused on cis women for, like,

since the Yahoo group's days.

You will see a lot of like,

rubber cow suits that heavily

feature inflatable breasts.

For either the men or the women.

And Or the non binary pals, but they tend

to be featured much less in rubber design.

Sorry.

But, yeah, you will see a lot of

different A lot of different intersections

with different kinks, and there's

And of course, like I

kept saying, bondage.

Clip this thing to an anchor

point, I'm fucking stuck.

Yeah.

There is not a lot I can do.

Craig: Lot of farm scenes I've seen

where there's been photographs, that

sort of bondage rig where it ties you

basically around the cock and keeps

you in place is a milking station

Adam: I am,

Craig: there's, Oh, go ahead.

Adam: no, I have seen cattle

squeeze shoots, and I swear to God,

the fact that this hasn't already

become bondage equipment shocks me.

I have seen people using

them on other humans.

I want it to be used on me.

Where can I afford such a thing?

Where can I afford land

to place such a thing on?

I do not have a driveway and if I

did, it wouldn't be private enough.

I've

Mnfcuk: It's funny you say that actually,

there's a, there's a brilliant, um,

scientist who was neurodivergent, was

an autistic woman named Temple Grandin,

who actually learned for one of her own

coping mechanisms that a cattle press was

Significantly better for her mental health

and then ran this huge gigantic study on

all these hundreds and hundreds of people.

And pretty much everybody came

back saying the same thing.

This, this compression, this

thing, humans just like that.

Craig: Oh yeah.

Mnfcuk: it's, it's good for us.

So cattle press absolutely

should be a bondage equipment.

And I Grandin, whether or not

you're interested in bull play.

It's just a story.

What a cool human.

Spandex

Adam: heard that from so many people.

So many neurodivergent kinky people I

have spoken to have been heavily into

thick rubber that is slightly undersized

for that additional compression

full body and it really helps them.

And I fully understand.

I may not have the same I may not have

the exact same effect, but yeah, I fully

understand the joys of compression.

You have all seen me in spandex.

Lycra.

That's language.

Mm.

Mm

Craig: Like, yeah.

I mean, that reminds me of an

anecdote back when I used to spend

a summer working in a sex shop.

When the anecdotes was about a

woman came in to buy a vat crack.

And it wasn't for any sort

of sexual or play purposes.

She was a care worker and one of

her higher needs autistic people she

worked with, used it before bed to

basically stop the stimulation so

it could calm down enough to sleep.

And it's like, Yeah, you can

use kinkstuff for that because

compression is inherently soothing.

And so I want to go back because there

is one more thread I want to pull on

from something that was said earlier.

Adam Manch mentioning us, your

non binary pals, which is There is

something inherently genderfuckery

around cowplay when it's done

by and male presenting people,

Adam: hmm.

Mm hmm.

Craig: which like, cause, cause, you

know, cows and bulls, same species, it's

just cows are the female of the species.

But you don't, A, don't seem to see

many people like concerned about that.

It's like, Oh God, being the cow makes

me feminine, which I love to see.

And I mean, that also touches on

likely the whole, one of the fetishes

that interacts is male lactation,

which is its own interesting

thing because, so male

Adam: Even

Craig: lactation is a

Adam: further, Jennifer.

Yes.

Craig: yeah, gender fuckery, but

it's also, Much more common than

you might think amongst very

large, long time muscular athletes,

Adam: So that aspect I can

actually talk about from the

biochemical aspect at any rate.

So

Craig: these do.

Adam: you're steroid users.

Testosterone elevates to a certain

level above which the body can't

really dispose of it the regular way.

So what it does is it aromatizes the

testosterone, converting it into estrogen.

The estrogen then builds up in

the male causing gynecomastia.

Breast growth.

For most of your bodybuilders, you will

have, as they progress to the higher and

higher doses of testosterone that keep

their free testosterone levels high enough

that they're getting the muscle growth

they want, they're getting the emotional

aspects that they want, they're getting

the results that they want, they also have

to start adding an estrogen blocker to it.

This will mean that yes, that testosterone

is eventually converted into estrogen,

but they're not getting any of the

negative side effects from having more

estrogen than they were expecting.

They're not getting the gynecomastia.

They're not getting breast growth.

They're not getting those mood

swings Estrogen causes different mood

swings to testosterone You're not

getting the mental health aspects.

Estrogen is much more of a like down

Neurotransmitter, testosterone is much

more of an up neurotransmitter and

You're keeping your energy levels higher

that sort of thing So you will then

in turn see a lot of bodybuilders who

not Take those estrogen blockers and

sure enough Their their chests are much

bigger and much softer than their peers.

This is because there has been breast

growth with enough effort All the

correct tools, you can then cause that

breast tissue to start expressing milk.

And this is how you get male lactation.

After you express the first

drop from there, it is the

same as a pregnant cis woman.

You keep pumping, the more you

pump, the more milk you produce,

and so on and so on and so on.

Same as, this is how, like, when a

baby is growing, as the baby grows,

they need more milk, so they suckle

more, so you produce more, so that

you can keep the baby growing.

If your goal is just to get the human cow

to start producing more and more milk,

You have to keep expressing more and more.

I have been chatting with people

who have taken this to the logical

conclusion and have been able to

produce almost a gallon a day.

It required pumping every two hours and

that was quite a drain on their time.

They could not maintain it

and their work schedule.

But the idea of producing

a gallon of milk a day

Craig: Mm hmm.

Adam: At that point, yeah, the

Creamery fantasy becomes real,

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

Craig: And it plays into that thing of,

well, if you get a dom that just keeps

you as livestock and can do that to you.

Adam: right?

Mnfcuk: Very hot.

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: I think that also goes

just to the the greater social

implication, like gender, just being

such a social construct, right?

Because with the right chemicals,

any of any of our bodies

can do any number of things.

Like, it's really, really fascinating.

Yeah, the, the, the male

lactation fantasy is very hot.

Craig: And again, it goes to that whole

thing of like, bulls and cows tend to

be this sort of maximalist, extreme

ends of the spectrum sort of fetish.

Adam: Bigger.

More.

Always.

Craig: Mm hmm, mm hmm,

Mnfcuk: Yeah,

Adam: Bigger toys.

Bigger chests.

Bigger holes.

Bigger cocks.

Bigger bulges.

Bigger.

Bigger.

More.

More.

Always.

Yeah.

Craig: mm hmm, now, for those of

those that can't instantly grow

into a huge muscle beast or can't

instantly pump their balls up to

enormous size or take a fist, what

sort of gear and aesthetics can people

adopt if they want to get into this?

Mnfcuk: come on cow prints

Talk to me Harry Winston.

Tell me all about it

Craig: Brown cow stunning!

Adam: Cow print is a very popular print,

especially if you go on to Etsy, you will

find all sorts of fun gear, some of which

will work for some body types, some of

which will work for other body types.

Because so much of it is focused around

cis women, you will eventually find things

that simply do not work on your body.

if you do not have that silhouette.

I had the very first time this

has ever happened of ordering

something, it's showing up and going,

I'm not big enough to wear this.

Mnfcuk: What?

Hot.

Craig: really?

Adam: My tits weren't big

enough to make this, like, Daisy

Duke style tie off shirt work.

It just looked ridiculous on me.

I ended up having to palm it off

to another HuCow who is closer

to the 5XL side of things.

It was actually Amazing.

But yes, if you go down the raver

scene, you will see a lot of what

I am wearing now for the cameras.

Gamers, you will see that halter tops

are very good for us, the arm warmers.

Likewise, great for showing

off your bicep growth.

You will have plenty

of leggings out there.

You will have plenty of boots out there.

You will see lots of shirts.

You will see lots of thongs,

jockstraps, briefs, shorts.

As of time of recording,

it is summer 2024.

MCE Creations has released a line

of cowboy chic for this season.

Among them is a bunch of very

good mesh shorts that are really

comfortable in this current heat wave.

Yeah, no, for literally

anything, start with Etsy.

You will find all of your

niche fetishes there.

And you can start exploring from there.

Likewise, as I said before, the cis

women tended to be where this has been

most popular for the last however long.

So if you're going down the latex route,

you will find most of that on sites that

cater to the straight fetish community.

Latex catfish has some amazing stuff,

but if you really want something to

just begin with And you don't fancy

going down the piercings route?

Bell, it works.

It's really good.

You enter the headset,

Mnfcuk: dong, darling.

Ding dong.

Craig: they are good.

And they have the extra bonus of, if

you're particularly into like humiliation

or attention being drawn to you, when

you move, they clank and ding, which

again, they are so good for this.

Adam: and do not be afraid to add tape

to the little ringer on the inside if

you want to muffle it a little bit.

It doesn't make the whole sound go

away, but it does just turn the volume

down a little bit so you don't go

insane wearing this thing around.

Mnfcuk: real life hacks right here.

This is

Craig: like,

Mnfcuk: the other bulls

in the pen are sleeping.

And so you want to be

Craig: mm hmm.

Mnfcuk: right?

Craig: Yeah, and I mean, a little

tip I got was so at Darklins,

there was someone I met.

Oh, God, and I forgot his screen name.

Oh, God.

I will edit this into the

show notes, at least, because

he deserves credit for this.

He got clip on so they

were actually Bowser horns?

Clip on Bowser horns for his Muircap?

Adam: Yes, I've

Craig: Yes.

Adam: Etsy, again, they

haven't arrived yet.

They were supposed to.

The mail is being slow today.

But, oh my god, they look so good!

Yes!

Mnfcuk: Yeah

Craig: so,

Mnfcuk: I love

Craig: I've got it.

Remembered it's leather bear solid.

Like go check him out.

He is this enormous muscle

bear and looks amazing in them.

But yeah, so I copied that and

have it on my leather Castro cap.

I've got.

And I do wonder, it seems a,

an interesting coincidence that

bull and cow play becomes popular

right as the rest of the gays are

getting really into cowboy stuff.

Mnfcuk: I thought you were gonna say,

right as the rest of the boys are

getting right, really, into Ozempic.

Everyone

Craig: another

Adam: oh,

Mnfcuk: away.

Craig: route to go down.

Mnfcuk: Yeah, no, I had a, I

have a friend of mine right

now who I love so much in SF.

Craig: Hmm.

Mnfcuk: he is bulking and he's

getting bigger and bigger and he's

like, I actually really like this.

And so his go to threat for me has been,

it's like Samson, if you don't come

over and play video games right now,

then I'm going to start taking Ozempic.

And I'm like, No!

Stop!

Please!

That, that will

Adam: oh,

Mnfcuk: me

Adam: yeah!

Mnfcuk: How dare you.

Craig: How dare.

But yeah, it is convenient that

basically after Beyonce and Orville

Peck and Kylie have conspired to

make the gays all wear cowboy hats.

also come into fashion.

Oh

Adam: I personally see this as

just a wonderful convenience.

Sorry.

Coincidence.

Words.

I can say.

I promise.

I went to school and everything.

Mnfcuk: Aw, big dumb guy.

Aw, big dumb moo cow.

So cute.

You don't need to think.

It's okay.

Craig: And listeners, it should be

said, that wasn't a sound effect.

That was actually Adam mooing.

Mnfcuk: was very good.

Adam: Thank you.

Yeah It is on the back of the throat.

Mnfcuk: it!

Adam: You don't use your tongue.

You force the air through your nose.

It is actually really sinus y.

It's sort of like humming violently.

Mnfcuk: I love that.

Humming violently.

Craig: So, yeah, so I think

we should get to some listener

questions we've been submitted.

So,

Adam: guys.

Craig: so first one, I think

we've kind of covered this, so on.

Another guest on the show, amazing go

listen to his episode on like bully play.

When I was poking around the cowhead

space, which was admittedly a few years

ago, it was taken up by a lot of cis

women, because of the idea of milking.

that changed?

Adam: Yes.

Answer.

It's

Craig: like, as you say, most of the

gear is still aimed at women, but like,

Adam: were here first, I will not

deny, and it is still predominantly

them in the scene, however, there are

more and more of everyone else every

day do not be surprised when you get

invited to Discord groups, Telegram

groups, all that good stuff but yeah,

no, there's more of the rest of us every

day it's not just the girls anymore.

Craig: mhm, it's now for the

girls, the gays in the days.

Mnfcuk: Work, we love,

Adam: Actually, that's a point.

I haven't seen many straight men in it.

Hmm.

Fascinating.

Anyway.

Craig: yes.

Mnfcuk: egos do not allow for that yet.

Adam: You'd think they'd

like the bull's side.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: but I'm like, no, this, can

we keep, let's keep, let's keep this

as our best kept secret, you know,

Adam: Sure.

Craig: So aspiring Dom, who is

a big player on our Discord.

He's got two questions.

One, would you consider wearing a

red kilt or jockstrap a challenge?

This is obviously playing in, because

reds, you know, Red rags to a bull.

No, no, no,

Mnfcuk: Oh, okay.

Oh, oh, as a challenge.

So not like as in a challenge,

like it's hard to wear.

That was my brain.

I was like, wearing a

Craig: no, no I ain't trick or treating.

Yeah.

Mnfcuk: about?

I'm dumb, sorry.

Craig: Like a, like a Matador.

And now I'm thinking like a

good Dom for a bull would be

wearing a leather Matador outfit.

Adam: Oh my god, yes.

Mnfcuk: But then they would

have to be fighting, right?

Craig: But that's part of it.

You're subduing this bigger,

more muscular person than you.

Mnfcuk: Yeah, yeah, I could

see that as being hot for sure.

Adam: And the short answer is,

wear it at the Eagle and see.

Mnfcuk: Olay!

You know.

Next time you're in

Craig: for

Adam: heavy is this guy?

Mnfcuk: SF, Adam, let's go.

Adam: Mindfuck, you don't know

I can throw you against the

wall and make out with you.

And it's gonna You're

Mnfcuk: Not if I gain 300

pounds by the time you get here!

Adam: on.

You have six weeks.

Go.

Mnfcuk: It's just calories.

Yeah,

Craig: So, next question.

Favorite bull slash cow puns to use?

This is for science

Adam: As an American citizen now, I

get to claim I get to plead the fifth.

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: I like like moo, moving

Craig: Mm

Mnfcuk: kind of,

Craig: mm-Hmm?

Mnfcuk: that's probably my go

to just because there's so many

areas where that's, that's, yeah.

Applicable and usable,

Adam: No, for me

Mnfcuk: out.

They do come out.

I feel like I have the unique and

unfortunate disposition of a way to

annoy everybody in the room with my puns.

So somebody can say something in my

brain will just, you know, my, my, my

two brain cells that are still left.

That are not these, like you

said, testosterone poisoned.

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: We'll connect and light up and my

world will go, hmm, hooves or something.

Craig: My favorite was one Rugger

came up and it was as a cow,

how do you know its pasture?

Bedtime.

Mnfcuk: Oh my God.

Work.

Adam: Okay, I'm going home.

Mnfcuk: because

Adam: you very much.

It's been wonderful.

Okay, fine.

Mnfcuk: time.

Adam: it's always the a bull ending of

any word, so like, huggable, adorable, fu

It works better written down than spoken.

Craig: No, no, spoken, it's

very clear and I love it.

So we have one for the adorable Banjo.

Which, which do you think, what, which

do you prefer being milked, Bullcow?

Your udder or your teats, or do you

prefer being used as breeding stock?

I'm guessing this is pointed at Adam.

Adam: Sorry, not sorry,

Breedingstock, all the way.

It's just more fun for me, personally.

Teats are more fun for me

than udder, personally.

But Breedingstock is still number one.

Please and thank you.

Mnfcuk: Here's what I do.

I say, Hey.

We're going to hook you up to the machine.

And once you produce a gallon of milk,

then you will earn the right to be bred.

Adam: Yeah?

Okay.

We're gonna be here a while.

Craig: milk?

Adam: Looking forward to it.

Hope you don't mind my

mooing literally all day.

You'll get to enjoy your show.

Mnfcuk: I have, I have cool neighbors.

They'll be fine.

Craig: So we have our last

question, which is from Rugga.

And he's asked,

so I'm in a couple of cow slash bull

chats, and I asked them if they have

any questions, and one which came up

was how much difference is there between

gay and straight cow or slash bull play?

One thing that came up a lot was

amongst my friends, a lot of cowboy

play is very lifestyle oriented.

People who gain muscle gainers, who do

body modification cow tags, earrings.

Recently became super

popular with my friends.

I must confess to really want to

get one once I stop playing rugby.

And of course, bullring septums,

have the relationship lifestyle,

regular inspections, control,

food intake, regular etc.

But none of them knew any straight people

who did the cow lifestyle, so they were

wondering if there was a lack of their own

network, or a more common thing generally.

Adam: My,

Craig: this is asking, do straight

people do it as a lifestyle

the same way a lot of gays and

furries do it as a full lifestyle?

Adam: that's just it.

My experience has mostly been with the

new furries and the tumblr community

before settling in with the gays.

The furries absolutely do it as a

lifestyle because furries, we do not.

do things by hearth.

Once you have accepted you're a furry,

you just, you seek your pleasure and

you realize that life is too short to be

embarrassed and do things the normie way.

The Tumblr community, I have seen a

little bit of both, but certainly a

lot more down the this is just what we

do in the bedroom, we get dressed up,

we have our fun, we take our clothes

off, and then we're back to normal.

There are plenty.

because Tumblr who do go

down the lifestyle path.

You will see plenty of HuCal cis women

who absolutely are going down the

lifestyle, who have the piercings,

who have the level of control,

who have the relationship dynamic.

But you'll also see plenty who don't.

By comparison, I've basically

only seen gay furries who do

it the non lifestyle route.

Basically everyone else in the

gay community who I've seen go

down this path have integrated it

into their lifestyle in some way,

much the same as like the puppies.

Even if all it is is that you're

adding puns and you're seeking to have

that relationship dynamic integrated

into your existing relationship.

Again, you seek your pleasure

and you don't be satisfied

with just a half measure of it.

Which is very gay of us

and I'm okay with that.

Craig: Yeah,

Mnfcuk: Yeah.

I agree.

I think it's much easier.

I think maybe as, as gay men

this is something that I've been

thinking a lot about with just

the way that we live our lives.

We already, in most areas of

the world are going to be looked

at as different and weird,

Craig: mm hmm,

Mnfcuk: with your partner there's, you're,

you're already part of the minority.

People are already going to be

looking at you kind of funny.

So in a way that kind of is what you

were saying with these, with, with,

with furries not having these half

measures of pleasure, it's like you.

If you don't kind of have this

wonderful existential permission,

then if you're already going to

Craig: mm hmm,

Mnfcuk: might as well

do what makes you happy.

You might as well do what is going to

bring you the most amount of happiness.

And straight people don't have that.

They, they can walk down the

street holding hands and it's just,

I mean, another person that's,

you're almost invisible, right?

So it's, it's a pretty remarkable

thing to be kind of, you know

yeah, given that permission by

society to be like, you know what?

I'm already going to be looked at funny.

I might as well get super huge, get

these piercings, get what's going

to make me happy and live this as

a 24 seven lifestyle and not just

take it off when I'm done with it.

Craig: yeah.

And I feel, especially for sort of

mass, what's the word I'm looking for?

male at birth people, like the size

aspect of the muscular, you're going

to have to build in like a lot of

lifestyle stuff to maintain that.

Mm

Adam: It takes time.

It takes dedication.

You don't get to just do this for half

an hour a week and be done with it.

I did not get to 150 kilograms,

325 pounds by just, you know,

by doing this 10 minutes a week.

Craig: Yeah.

Adam: you just don't, I'm sorry,

the body doesn't work that way.

We don't have that magic pill yet.

I'd love it if we did.

I'd have so much more free

time on my hands, but,

Craig: Mm

Hmm.

Mm

Adam: you'd learn to enjoy the process.

There is a deep pleasure in feeling

that ache, but the good ache, the ache

of I'm going to be stronger tomorrow.

You get a deep pleasure in seeing

something that was impossible a month ago.

be fine now and mundane next month.

And because the maximalist

mindset, because the more always

mindset, that transfers.

You start training all sorts of aspects

of life and you start wanting more

and you start feeling that progress and

feeling that growth and feeling that,

again, that progress towards your goals.

And.

It lends itself to fisting training, it

does lend itself to chastity, it does

lend itself to growing your nipples

with pumps, it lends itself to all of

things, it even lends itself to work.

I managed to turn, like, the

gainer, muscle gainer, bull,

maximalist mindset to my studies

because I was making progress.

I was seeing the growth.

I wanted more.

And why did that work for Algebra?

Why did I get the same joy as building

my biceps and being able to do a pull

up as finally understanding Calculus 3?

Craig: Yeah.

Like,

Adam: Minds are weird.

Craig: yeah.

But it does tie into like, what we

find a lot on this show when talking

to people's kinks is like, we, we like

to think of them as these boxed off

things we do in the bedroom or the

club, but they often teach skills you

can really transfer out into life.

Adam: Mm mm.

Craig: And especially if you find a

kink or a lifestyle that grounds you

and really makes you happy, you start

excelling in other parts of your life

because that happiness carries over.

And there is one more note, I feel like

this may come off as a bit tacked on

because we've talked about muscular

growth as like a big part of this.

It's not for everyone.

You do not have to have a certain

body type to do cow or bull play.

We've talked, as we've talked about,

like the actions you do, how you

are treated, the mindset, even if

you just want to wear cow print,

those all can be bull or play alone.

You don't need to build a muscular

body to feel like you have to do this.

That's not a gate to hell.

Not a gatekeep, that makes no sense.

This is not something that like

having a different size body

would prevent you from doing.

This is just because like, we

particularly like that aspect of it.

Adam: Some of the best Cowplay and

Transformation Hypno Subs Struggling

the word, the best cow I know.

He is like a 150kg at best, 70kg at

best twink who just makes it work.

It is incredible.

You see it in his eyes.

You see it in his movement.

You hear it in his voice.

The ecstasy in him.

It's infectious.

Even just a video is enough.

Even just a drawing of him is enough.

Like, fucking hell Logan,

why aren't you gaining?

I want to see you

not to.

You can be a skinny cow too, and I

will just sit here and fantasize about

you with an extra, like, 300 pounds.

Craig: Like the fantasizing is fun.

And again, we've talked how

hypno can be used with it.

One of the funnest things I've

had is have a hypno dom make me

think I'm so like, sort of like.

Like internal hallucinations as

I call them and just sensation.

He put in the suggestion when I

was under that I was basically

too huge of muscular to move.

Adam: Mm hmm.

Craig: but like, you

can still feel that way.

Mnfcuk: absolutely.

That's one of the fun things about,

yeah, about hypnosis in general is that

you can, again, kind of similar to art

that we were talking about earlier, you

Craig: Yeah.

Mnfcuk: impossible scenarios that work.

Even though it's not something that

you can necessarily ground in reality,

but to your brain, it is real, and

that's all we really have, right?

Craig: Exactly.

We are coming up to time.

I've seen we're past an hour now, so

we are going to have to wrap this up.

But before we go, is there any final

words you guys want to give and

where online can people find you?

Adam: Mindfuck, go ahead.

Mnfcuk: Oh so I am on Twitter

at Mindfuck, M N D F C U K.

In terms of final words, yeah, I

would just say if it sounds like

it's something that's interesting

to you, right Life again, life is

too short to go half measure, right?

Like you give it a shot.

See, see if that's something

that, that is interesting to you.

Try it a little bit, maybe see if that's

something that, stirs a greater interest.

But yeah, that's, that's probably,

that's probably it for me.

Craig: Nice, Adam

Adam: You can find me on Twitter, I,

I've finally gotten my Twitter back

at GiantBritishPup and, yeah, just.

Life is too short to not

try everything you're into.

Just short.

People are gonna be weird about it.

They're gonna be weird

about you doing anything.

They're gonna be weird about

you wearing your shirt with the

buttons done up or not done up.

Just go have fun.

Enjoy.

Be weird.

Life is too short to not be.

And drink your milk.

Craig: got milk.

Yes.

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