Craig: Are you looking for a picturesque getaway for your vacation?
Then look no further than the Kinky Boy's Ranch and Creamery.
Here in the lee of a picturesque ridge, lies a small, unpretentious, hew cow farm
that pampers its herd like its own Bebes.
Hi, I'm Craig, and if you like creamy produce and beef, then our
ranch is the perfect place for you.
You can see first hand how we treat our cattle, be they the
breeding bulls in their fully equipped gym facility like Ochnurb.
Adam NYC, Hairy Hypnotist and Brian C.
Or you can tour our world class milking facility where our cows get
pumped for their delicious cream.
like Banjo Stewie, Slim Leather, Southern Suter and Forever Bulking.
come on down to the Kinky Boys Ranch for your next big day out.
Find out more at patreon.
com forward slash kinky boys podcast.
From that introduction, you may have figured out the
topic we are covering today.
Cow and bull play.
With me, we have returning co host after a bit of an absence, Adam.
Adam: Hello, you're going to notice the change in accent after
far too many years in America?
Craig: Yes.
Yes.
That's the only change people are noticing with you right now.
Those who can see the camera.
So to give an audio description, Adam is in full cow gear.
He has the horns.
He has the ear.
He has the oversized piercing nose ring, a bell and an adorable top on.
Oh, And the cow tag cattle tag earring.
that other voice is our other guest, Mindfuck, welcome to the show.
Mnfcuk: Thank you so much for having me.
Craig: Hey, so yeah you may have recognized him, you've also been in
front of the camera on, I believe it was the, what's the safe word, show?
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
Yep.
Craig: Yeah.
So tell us a bit about yourself.
Who are you?
What do you do?
What do you do to people?
Mnfcuk: Yeah, well, I I generally am a big hypno person, right?
Like I'm a big hypnosis fetishist.
Craig: Love that on this show.
Mnfcuk: my, that's kind of my general, my general thing.
But I'm also with, with a specific interest in like muscle growth,
bull transformation like livestock mindset, that kind of thing.
That's been a big big interest of mine.
So it's a perfect topic for the show.
And I'm excited to hear your, your thoughts on it as well.
Craig: Yes.
I mean, it's been growing rapidly recently.
Like every year, whenever we do the sort of predictions for the kink crowd the
last three years running, I have said bull and cow play will become a big thing.
And I've just been a little bit too early.
And I think this is the year it's finally really starting to like hit, I don't want
to say mainstream consciousness, but sort of the wider community consciousness.
Adam: It does seem to
Mnfcuk: starting to move into the mainstream.
Confuciusness.
Craig: There will be a lot of puns for this episode.
Adam: Yeah, that one.
Craig: actually had people write in about that.
So,
so let's start right at the top for those who don't know,
what is bull and or cow play?
Adam: Mindfuck, would you like to go first?
Mnfcuk: Sure, I was gonna say, I was just gonna say, does the one
dressed up in this adorable little cow wanna, it feels like an interception
to steal this answer from you.
But yeah, I'd say bull and cow plate is A roleplay situation kind
of similar to pup play or to age play where you are going into the
headspace of a beast of burden, right?
So you're kind of going into this really animalistic, primal headspace and that
can involve a lot of different things.
That can involve muscle growth, meaning like your body is like
swelling and growing and you're becoming this big, bulky thing.
That can involve, you know, obviously hypnosis that could be like dumbing
your brain down to just be, you know, a big dumb cow and then you on the
other flip side of that will often have either like a sir, a dom, a ranch hand
as with many you know kink dynamics, you have kind of that flip side,
you have a dom and you have a sub.
And so cow and bull play, I think has been around for, you know,
a really, a really long time.
It might just.
Be gaining verbiage right now, which, for all intents and purposes, kind
of, you know, makes it a thing.
People might have been doing it, but not necessarily understanding that that's
what it was, that that was turning them on about that specific kind of role play.
You know,
Adam: Yeah the only thing I was going to add was just, like, talking about
some of the headspace for it, because having done a lot of pup play, having
done a fair amount of, like, bull and cow stuff, it's got a lot of overlap, but
there is some slight difference as well.
With the pup play side, you're much more, like, emotional, much more devoted, much
more You're slightly more switched on.
You're still, like, able to think enough to process commands,
do tricks, that sort of thing.
You're still playful, you're still, like, figuring out what to do, engaging
in initiative, that sort of thing.
With the cow and the bull stuff, it's much more like, reactive, if that makes sense.
Much more instinctual, much more emotive.
You don't really have the brain power necessary to go through playing,
doing tricks for your handler.
It's much more like, this is what I have to do in this moment, and
it is just this moment in my head.
And there's a lot of release to that.
And it is a lot of fun.
You have a lot more of the like growth, focus, certainly, and you do
have a lot of like either the body focus in the sense of like just the
full testosterone poisoned brain.
If you're in the bull mindset or the please for the love of God mount me, I
am desperate in like the cow mindset and.
Again, there's a lot of fun to that too.
It is a slightly different flavor of primal animal role play to pup play.
Craig: yeah, like from what I've seen, it's a much more, like you said, not
quite passive, but you don't have to think as much and it's very, you are
the big lumbering beast of burden and you sort of had the two separates,
which we're going to talk about into a second about like, like bull and
cow aren't quite the same thing in the headspace terms how it's sort of treated.
And we're going to get into that.
So, yeah, let's talk about what separates a bull from a cow.
Adam: So, I have dipped my hand into both, and for me there's the bodily aspects
and there is the personality aspects.
For the bodily aspects,
Mnfcuk: hand into both cows and bulls.
Adam: well, yeah, I
mean, there have been, yeah, nope, I have.
Anyway, moving on.
So, for the personality aspect, you just think of like the
traits you associate with bulbs.
You've got like the power, the ferocity, relentless horniness.
You've got like the protective, strong willed, stubborn, virile,
fuck anything with a whole mindset.
And likewise, if you think more of the traits you associate with a cow, it's
much more like docile, empty headed, not a thought behind those eyes,
easily led, easily manipulated, will follow anyone with a handful of food,
some soothing words, and a head pat.
End.
Yeah, it's very much like, at least from my experience, your mileage may
vary, it's almost sort of a Dom Sub, but from the animal perspective.
It's more of the power dynamic, and it's the personality that comes with it.
And likewise, there is the bodily aspect.
The bulls, from my experience, tend to be much more muscular
focused, much more cock focused.
And the cows tend to be much more, your tits, your nipples, your Your whole.
Maybe your udder being milked.
And that's, again, you've got much more of the like, top bottom from
the primal animal perspective.
It's, it's weird to describe being a dom sub that doesn't
fit, even though it kind of fits.
Craig: yeah, like, bull has this weird sort of crossover where
it's used sort of almost in three.
Ways in the kink scene,
Adam: Hmm.
Craig: bull to describe the gay body type in the same way we have bears and twinks
and otters bull tends to be basically the power lifter build where it's sort of
like real huge muscle bear with a big gut,
Adam: Hi.
Craig: you know,
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
Craig: Hey!
Yeah.
And it is like, in that respect, it's often tied with sort of that testosterone,
like you said, testosterone poisoned, muscular virile, really need to fuck,
which also ties into the like the other one, which is in cuckolding.
the person coming in doing the cuckolding is typically called the bull because
they are bigger, stronger, more virile.
So is, is that thing of associating the idea of a bull with virality?
And I find it fascinating having bulls as subs because you just have that
mental image, or at least I do, of like.
a normal sized Dom with like the big lumbering massive bull subbing behind him,
Adam: There is a lot of fun.
Craig: image that I really enjoy for the contrast and the defying of expectations.
Adam: So one of the one of the most fun aspects about that is
actually the gigantic septum ring.
They do serve more than just an aesthetic purpose.
Just like with an actual bowl, you hook your nose through it, or you stick a
clip on it, you feel the vulnerability.
This is not a strong bit of your body, and you know that a single harsh tug
and you will be on the floor screaming.
And so you obey.
It takes the slightest pull, and your head is following immediately.
It's,
Craig: Oh, yeah.
Adam: it's an incredibly vulnerable headspace that you
are instantly brought into.
And if
Mnfcuk: said,
Adam: you get that power transfer, you can have the skinniest twink imaginable
pulling the biggest body, the biggest power lifter in the building, and
there will not be a goddamn thing the power lifter can do about it.
Mnfcuk: that being said, under no circumstances, should you ever
take a septum ring as consent, like do not go to a bar and hat,
just go up and touch somebody.
Never grab somebody's collar.
Never grab somebody's septum ring.
I've seen it happen at the Eagle here in SF, and it's not fun.
don't be that person.
So,
Craig: Yeah.
That's like such a basic thing to do.
It's the same as like, so often people come up and just grab the nipples and
immediately twist to 11 and it's like, no.
Ooh.
Why, why is this such a common problem?
Adam: No.
Craig: Yeah, I mean, we actually talked about this on the body
modification episode with Rugga, who is actually another huge bull player,
like, and I want to have him on sometime to also discuss this topic.
But yeah, he talked about like, Piercings can be, especially nose
piercings can be used to pull around.
Do try and gauge up before you try this because there is the lovely term cheese
wiring where the pressure is too small and the piercing essentially cheese wires out
through the flesh and you don't want that.
So you want a nice big thick gauge in before you try this.
Adam: For the viewers.
Mnfcuk: term for me.
There
Adam: It is just enough that it goes down to my upper lip and you can fit a finger
through the middle quite comfortably.
Craig: Yes.
Adam: is an excellent size for it.
Also really good for carabiners.
Craig: Yes.
Oh, I've not thought of that, but that's quite cool.
But
Adam: Gotta get the rope?
Craig: Comparison my one, if you've seen a photo of me or can see the video, is
literally just a 10 gauge at the minute, and you can definitely see the difference.
Adam: I wouldn't.
Mnfcuk: weird though.
Cause a lot of people that don't have piercings don't know like the, the
lower the gauge, larger the actual thing
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: think, Oh, the higher it goes, you know, the bigger it is
like, no, actually the lower it goes.
The bigger it is.
Craig: Yeah, because the biggest size is like double zero, I think.
Adam: Once you go past the double zero, they start just
measuring it in millimeters.
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: Crazy.
Hot.
Craig: Yeah.
Cause yeah.
Mnfcuk: I say as somebody with no piercings or tattoos yet!
Craig: Yeah.
Adam: It's fine, you've got
Craig: a,
Adam: time.
Craig: it's a journey.
Like finally my nipple piercings are finally healed after a year.
Adam: Oh my god, how long did that take?
A
Craig: Well, roughly eight months and then I kept screwing up with them
because they kept catching on everything.
Adam: little break, I'm so sorry.
Craig: no!
Next I've got to swap to rings, which will take a little more healing, probably.
And
Adam: Mm hmm.
Craig: want to upsize them.
Because, again, like, they keep catching and, yeah.
Heh heh
Adam: Oh god, it's gonna take you this thing to me
Craig: heh.
Mnfcuk: a high traffic area with all those milking machines though.
Craig: So Yeah, milking is a good point.
So how does cow, what's the cow head space?
Like we've, we've talked about it, but I want to go in depth on this
just because I like hearing about it.
Mnfcuk: defer to the actual, to the, to the more cow of the two of us.
Adam: So again for me personally your mileage may vary it is Again, it's
much more primal much less intellectual must much less proactive much more
docile much more reactive Much more submissive in a sense of there is so
much fog in my head Literally can't think
I will just do what you tell me to, I will lead where you,
I will follow where you lead.
But there is still the bodily needs, and it does go from desire through to need.
If you do start using chastity as well as like cowplay, Oh my fucking god.
After a few weeks not being able to milk myself, I am climbing the fucking walls.
I will do anything, hook me the fuck up.
fuck up to that machine.
You do get incredibly hole hungry, and yes, the nipple focus is
real, as is just like the grabbing and kneading of your pecs.
It is a very touch focused headspace.
It is a very, like,
sensory headspace.
if that makes sense.
You don't have enough going on in your head for it to be much more than
sensory, reactive, desires, needs.
And
Mnfcuk: Absolutely.
Adam: there is, if you go down that route, there is a lot of the oral fixation.
The stereotype of the cow continually chewing, well, it's not just chewing
that feeds the orals and fixation.
You can get a lot of pleasure out of that in other ways too, but.
Also, I will ask Mindfuck because you have been putting boys into these headspaces.
What have I missed?
Mnfcuk: No, I think that's I think that's a great, a great summary.
I think for a lot of a lot of cows as well, there is, yeah, that,
that big whole focus of just being essentially like a slab of meat, right?
So a lot of that headspace.
itself to extremes, right?
So it'll lend itself to being like like, like progression.
It's like, we always want to be being pushed into something, always
want to be led into something.
And so for a lot of people that will line up with like fisting and whole
stretching, that's a huge common thing, I think, for both cows and bulls actually.
And so that, that could be a really fun headspace to play
with because it's already such a.
vulnerable thing, right?
Much in the same way as like grabbing someone by the septum piercing.
It's like, okay, well you literally have my body completely under your control.
Right?
Like, cause when someone's hand is inside you, it's like, okay, I've really
got to be, you know, conscious of how they're moving and how I'm moving.
And it can be this really beautiful kind of back and forth, when someone's in that
really, yeah, primal, primal head space.
I think in the same way, as you mentioned who like just the reassuring
touch of having like your pecs played with, or having someone like rub
the muscles in your ass, like it can be this This energetic exchange
that's really really, really special.
So on a physical level,
Craig: Yeah.
Yeah.
Mnfcuk: a mental level that you can also do that.
Like long distance, just getting someone dumber and dumber and dumber
and having them sit on toys for you, having them, you know, lock up for
you, having them go to the gym and report in with their diet, reporting
in with their workout for the day.
Like that's all all about control.
Craig: And that is hot.
And again, it seems to have this through theme of maximizing, so maximizing your
Adam: Bigger.
More.
All way.
Craig: yeah, maximizing your hole, maximizing your tits.
Like, it's a maximalist form of play.
Mnfcuk: Yeah, absolutely.
Adam: Oh, I'm sorry.
Craig: yeah, that's funny.
And you talking about like massaging the tits just made me think of
that myth around Wagyu beef.
Adam: Yes.
Craig: Wagyu beef is like some of the most expensive cuts of beef in the
world, famous for Japanese cows, and one of the sort of industry myths they put
around about it is the cows are extremely pampered and like, they had daily body
massages from the farm hands, like complete myth, but like, you know, it
was used to upsell and price up the meat.
Mnfcuk: That's a fantasy that I'm trying to live as a cow.
Oh my God.
I want to be
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: pampered cow.
Yes, please.
Adam: Hold on, I've got the massage gun in the next room.
I'll bring it out.
Mnfcuk: What are your, your, your all ears?
Oh, wait, nevermind.
Craig: So yeah, I mean, this kind of gets into our next topic, which is like
how the sort of roles are used in play.
And I feel like we're already covering that.
Mnfcuk: sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it is like kind of like we were saying, it's very similar to
other styles of kink play where there is kind of these two sides of the same
coin, right and giving yourself to someone or as a dom kind of lending
your, your skill set to owning someone or leading someone through what you know
is going to be satisfying to them, right?
One thing with, with bull and cow play, I think especially though
that's worth mentioning is, There's this saying that goes around that
the best doms were once subs, right?
Or at least for that specific activity, like don't, don't say you're going
to flog someone and having never been flogged before, or, you know, like
you want to, you want to make sure that, you know what you're doing.
And so you can, you can kind of lead someone through the paces.
And with, with, cow and bull play, I think a lot of the time, the best,
the best doms are people who share that fetish, who have gone into that
headspace many, many times themselves.
Because if you can kind of have a, you know to do list, like whenever I'm
starting a scene, I always kind of like to have a mental checklist of like,
okay, like, what are, what are the things that I would like to have done to me?
What do I think that shares in common with what this person probably wants to
experience and how do I lead them through that in the most satisfying way possible?
So that's one thing that's, I think, yeah, pretty specific to, to bowl
and cow plays that you benefit a lot from, from enjoying both sides.
Adam: I will add
Craig: Like,
Adam: that you, to be a fisting top does not necessarily require having
been a fisting bottom, however, do please look up an anatomy textbook
just for that bit of the body.
You do want to know where your hand is going to be going, what it's going
to be meeting, where the good bits are, where the painful bits are, where
the thing you push to make the cow bellow so loud that the neighbors hear.
Yeah.
That sort of thing.
You don't necessarily have to have spent all, like, three years training your hull
to be able to do it yourself, but you do need to have some requisite knowledge.
You can mess this up.
Craig: yeah.
And when we say mess it up, like fisting, you can do some serious damage
if you are not careful in that area.
Adam: Mm hmm.
Craig: I think because of how common the imagery for it has become, people
forget how extreme you have to put.
Situation you have to put the body in for that, which again, like.
Like BDSM is all about extreme situations in a lot of ways.
But yeah, just do know what you're doing and know what, to be safe with it.
I don't think we've actually done a fisting episode so far.
Well, that's going on the list.
Mnfcuk: One interesting thing that you said too, how often it's portrayed.
I think that we see it all the time, you know, on social media and everything.
But one thing that is also really specific to the cow and bull headspace is how often
it is portrayed in art, in fantasy, right?
Because is one of those things that like rapid muscle gain, rapid rapid
weight gain This kind of extreme transformation thing is not necessarily
something that's possible in reality.
And that's where I think for me personally, I love really talented artists
that can bring some of these fantasies into something that I can at least look
at or read kind of like a, you know, illustrative kind of erotica situation.
And that's also another one that's, that's, that's interesting and
specific to bull and cow play, I'd say much more than other fetishes.
So there's kind of this fun, whimsical quality to it, right?
In the same way that, like, there's, you know, these wonderful ear tags that
you're wearing that SpacePupSilver made.
Incredible, right?
Like, there's this, there's this fun quality to it that I, that I love so much.
Adam: It is very easy.
Mnfcuk: Yeah, if you're curious, I'd say look at some bull and bull
and cow art because that can kind of explain play that we're talking
about maybe a little bit more too.
Adam: Spiral Stories, DeviantArt, MCC
Mnfcuk: yeah,
Adam: Stories.
Excuse me, I'll be in my bunk.
So, I have something I need to look up later, apparently.
Mm hmm.
Craig: stories.
And it was a coach turning all his staff, like lifting team into like
human cattle and like, you know, they got dumbed down as they got bigger
and just got forced a feeding tube while being milked on the other end.
Mnfcuk: absolutely hot.
Ha ha ha ha.
Craig: the thing.
If someone came up to me and said, Okay, your role for the rest of your life
will just be to eat, get fucked, be milked, and just be really strong and
pretty and have people grope you, I'd be like, Sounds like a fair exchange.
It's a hard life, but I'd be willing to do it.
Mnfcuk: Have you seen that video that's been making the rounds from that movie
The Creamery, where it's like, for this movie is that like, all the men on earth
have had this virus, and so there's only like, a few men left, and so they get
rounded up and put in this basement, and they're all strapped down and like,
milked with screens in front of them that are like, constantly stimulating them.
think
Craig: Oh
Mnfcuk: way that like the Violet Beauregard Willy Wonka thing for like
inflation, like some people, that's their spider bite, I think that scene,
making the rounds in front of millions and millions of people on Twitter
is also the spider bite for a lot of people's bowl slash milking fetish.
Craig: yeah.
You've not seen it?
Oh, it's been around so much.
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
Craig: And I think that touches on another aspect, which is like, we talk
about it in the personal individual sense, but again, there's also sort
of the industrial side of it where like, you know, cows on this day and
age are milked on an industrial scale.
And often people have that.
Fancy of being in a facility where they're chained up with other men, just
being constantly pumped and milked.
again, it's that you are part of a herd, camaraderie, but you're also
lesser because you're just cattle.
So you're just there for what you can produce and just like be trapped there
in place being milked all the time.
Mnfcuk: Extremely hot.
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: hot.
Yeah.
That's, that's like a long term fantasy for me someday would be to like buy a cute
little parcel of land and then just have, have my, my ranch house kind of fantasy.
Someday we'll get there.
Craig: Oh yeah.
Adam: Feel very affordable.
Mnfcuk: No, it'll just be me like with a glass of Chardonnay upstairs
listening to like the whimpers and moos and cries from downstairs.
Ah, we made it.
Yes.
Craig: I want to talk about, because role play fetishes tend to have
intersecting lines with other fetishes.
So I think we can go through a few of like what other forms of play
go well with cow and bull play.
I mean, the big one is Hehehehe
Adam: because if I start, I'm not gonna stop.
Craig: hmm
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
I mean, there are, there are so so many, right?
Like, I think that the first one that my brain goes to is definitely Hypno,
just because I feel like it, is one of the things that I really appreciate.
You know, fetishize so much.
And I feel like it's this headspace thing, like being a bull, being
a cow, changing your lifestyle, being programmed to be like this.
This, this beast of burden, that's a real thing.
Gaining and muscle growth, right?
That kind of can lead to that getting bigger.
Chastity is a big one, right?
Like being, being locked up and having like no control over your own body.
Again, I feel like this is all about having like modifications made to
your body as this big beast and having like this, this dominant come in and
saying, okay, well, I'm going to put.
I'm going to put a piercing here.
I'm going to put a restricting device here.
I'm going to change this part of your lifestyle, you know It's
kind of like a humiliation thing.
Sometimes it can be like, Oh, being led around as this big, big,
big guy by this little tiny guy.
Like there's kind of this, you know, mental thing about that.
And then the other one that I would like to specifically
mention is big bulges, right?
Like, I don't know if
Craig: Yeah,
Mnfcuk: livestock or cows Having like gigantic balls, right?
Like a bowl that is just
Craig: yeah,
Mnfcuk: between their legs, like this big hanging sack,
like that's a huge one for me.
I think that's super hot.
I've been getting into pumping a lot lately.
And I feel like the, the response from that on Twitter has been like a lot
of people being like, what, like, I didn't know that you could even do that.
But that kind of goes hand in hand with saline, which is also
a super safe option, right?
And then the much more dangerous silicone, right, which is permanent comes with
its whole own risks and stuff, but
Craig: yeah, I'm, I'm going to interject and say here, like the
official policy of the kinky boys podcast is there is basically a
high fatality rate with silicone.
So we advise people to stay with saline and pumping because
they are the safer options.
Sorry, just to, just to do the legal and disclaimer.
Mnfcuk: agree.
Anyway, I'll pass the, pass the baton off to you.
Adam: That having been said, you do absolutely see within the Silicon
community a very high representation of your bulls and your cows within it.
A lot of people who get the bulge also develop the interest in, Oh,
hey, there's this awesome bull.
Awesome roleplay that I get to do that heavily features this, but yeah,
you've covered most of my list as well Obviously there is the furries like this
is basically how I discovered it in the first place and then it just sort of like
had several false starts before finally going, Oh wait, no, actually, yes, please.
Milking, obviously, pet players, obviously.
We've covered the body mods, but you also get the body paint option.
You will see a lot of people either with just regular body paint or the liquid
latex going for the cow print look.
It is hot as fuck.
Fuck.
Especially if you're
Craig: sounds
Adam: not with the hypnose because it really gets the
transformation headspace into you.
when you look into the mirror and you don't see yourself looking back.
You get like the farmer fetish, you get the outdoor fetish you get, I
have seen within the gainer community there is a lot of interest within the
burping and like farting communities.
Absolutely love this.
You Get the objectification, like you said, being reduced to a piece
of meat, an object, property, just a number, not a name.
You get What else was on my list?
I wrote so much fucking down.
Oh, yeah, and we did talk about fisting as well.
Obviously, you've got your farmer boys with their shoulder length
gloves going into the cow and, you
know, that's a look, that's a vibe, that is an experience.
Oh my god, keep
Mnfcuk: the horse speculum!
Adam: of a human headspace that they can still use the poppers.
Trying to take a fist using just conscious muscle control in a like barn setting.
That was an experience.
I was very impressed I managed to do it.
Craig: Mm hmm.
Adam: proud I managed to do it.
Oh my god, that was intense.
Keep the poppers handy.
Craig: Yes.
Adam: yeah, no, you can integrate so much into this.
And you can even do like the soft stuff.
Like we have seen the TikToks and the Instagram reels of cow therapy, of
having just the huge, heavy, comfy beast just long head onto you and just
like, Oh no, I am forced to be cuddled.
Oh no, how terrible.
My relaxation is being thrust upon me.
The various worries of day to day life and all of the stresses, I am pinned
in place by this great beast and must be forced to have soft, comfy time.
This is also very fun to add.
You get some of the inflation fetish especially if you start looking at
the websites that produce rubber for the straight fetish community.
Because Cowplay has been so focused on cis women for, like,
since the Yahoo group's days.
You will see a lot of like, rubber cow suits that heavily
feature inflatable breasts.
For either the men or the women.
And Or the non binary pals, but they tend to be featured much less in rubber design.
Sorry.
But, yeah, you will see a lot of different A lot of different intersections
with different kinks, and there's
And of course, like I kept saying, bondage.
Clip this thing to an anchor point, I'm fucking stuck.
Yeah.
There is not a lot I can do.
Craig: Lot of farm scenes I've seen where there's been photographs, that
sort of bondage rig where it ties you basically around the cock and keeps
you in place is a milking station
Adam: I am,
Craig: there's, Oh, go ahead.
Adam: no, I have seen cattle squeeze shoots, and I swear to God,
the fact that this hasn't already become bondage equipment shocks me.
I have seen people using them on other humans.
I want it to be used on me.
Where can I afford such a thing?
Where can I afford land to place such a thing on?
I do not have a driveway and if I did, it wouldn't be private enough.
I've
Mnfcuk: It's funny you say that actually, there's a, there's a brilliant, um,
scientist who was neurodivergent, was an autistic woman named Temple Grandin,
who actually learned for one of her own coping mechanisms that a cattle press was
Significantly better for her mental health and then ran this huge gigantic study on
all these hundreds and hundreds of people.
And pretty much everybody came back saying the same thing.
This, this compression, this thing, humans just like that.
Craig: Oh yeah.
Mnfcuk: it's, it's good for us.
So cattle press absolutely should be a bondage equipment.
And I Grandin, whether or not you're interested in bull play.
It's just a story.
What a cool human.
Spandex
Adam: heard that from so many people.
So many neurodivergent kinky people I have spoken to have been heavily into
thick rubber that is slightly undersized for that additional compression
full body and it really helps them.
And I fully understand.
I may not have the same I may not have the exact same effect, but yeah, I fully
understand the joys of compression.
You have all seen me in spandex.
Lycra.
That's language.
Mm.
Mm
Craig: Like, yeah.
I mean, that reminds me of an anecdote back when I used to spend
a summer working in a sex shop.
When the anecdotes was about a woman came in to buy a vat crack.
And it wasn't for any sort of sexual or play purposes.
She was a care worker and one of her higher needs autistic people she
worked with, used it before bed to basically stop the stimulation so
it could calm down enough to sleep.
And it's like, Yeah, you can use kinkstuff for that because
compression is inherently soothing.
And so I want to go back because there is one more thread I want to pull on
from something that was said earlier.
Adam Manch mentioning us, your non binary pals, which is There is
something inherently genderfuckery around cowplay when it's done
by and male presenting people,
Adam: hmm.
Mm hmm.
Craig: which like, cause, cause, you know, cows and bulls, same species, it's
just cows are the female of the species.
But you don't, A, don't seem to see many people like concerned about that.
It's like, Oh God, being the cow makes me feminine, which I love to see.
And I mean, that also touches on likely the whole, one of the fetishes
that interacts is male lactation,
which is its own interesting thing because, so male
Adam: Even
Craig: lactation is a
Adam: further, Jennifer.
Yes.
Craig: yeah, gender fuckery, but it's also, Much more common than
you might think amongst very large, long time muscular athletes,
Adam: So that aspect I can actually talk about from the
biochemical aspect at any rate.
So
Craig: these do.
Adam: you're steroid users.
Testosterone elevates to a certain level above which the body can't
really dispose of it the regular way.
So what it does is it aromatizes the testosterone, converting it into estrogen.
The estrogen then builds up in the male causing gynecomastia.
Breast growth.
For most of your bodybuilders, you will have, as they progress to the higher and
higher doses of testosterone that keep their free testosterone levels high enough
that they're getting the muscle growth they want, they're getting the emotional
aspects that they want, they're getting the results that they want, they also have
to start adding an estrogen blocker to it.
This will mean that yes, that testosterone is eventually converted into estrogen,
but they're not getting any of the negative side effects from having more
estrogen than they were expecting.
They're not getting the gynecomastia.
They're not getting breast growth.
They're not getting those mood swings Estrogen causes different mood
swings to testosterone You're not getting the mental health aspects.
Estrogen is much more of a like down Neurotransmitter, testosterone is much
more of an up neurotransmitter and You're keeping your energy levels higher
that sort of thing So you will then in turn see a lot of bodybuilders who
not Take those estrogen blockers and sure enough Their their chests are much
bigger and much softer than their peers.
This is because there has been breast growth with enough effort All the
correct tools, you can then cause that breast tissue to start expressing milk.
And this is how you get male lactation.
After you express the first drop from there, it is the
same as a pregnant cis woman.
You keep pumping, the more you pump, the more milk you produce,
and so on and so on and so on.
Same as, this is how, like, when a baby is growing, as the baby grows,
they need more milk, so they suckle more, so you produce more, so that
you can keep the baby growing.
If your goal is just to get the human cow to start producing more and more milk,
You have to keep expressing more and more.
I have been chatting with people who have taken this to the logical
conclusion and have been able to produce almost a gallon a day.
It required pumping every two hours and that was quite a drain on their time.
They could not maintain it and their work schedule.
But the idea of producing a gallon of milk a day
Craig: Mm hmm.
Adam: At that point, yeah, the Creamery fantasy becomes real,
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
Craig: And it plays into that thing of, well, if you get a dom that just keeps
you as livestock and can do that to you.
Adam: right?
Mnfcuk: Very hot.
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: I think that also goes just to the the greater social
implication, like gender, just being such a social construct, right?
Because with the right chemicals, any of any of our bodies
can do any number of things.
Like, it's really, really fascinating.
Yeah, the, the, the male lactation fantasy is very hot.
Craig: And again, it goes to that whole thing of like, bulls and cows tend to
be this sort of maximalist, extreme ends of the spectrum sort of fetish.
Adam: Bigger.
More.
Always.
Craig: Mm hmm, mm hmm,
Mnfcuk: Yeah,
Adam: Bigger toys.
Bigger chests.
Bigger holes.
Bigger cocks.
Bigger bulges.
Bigger.
More.
Always.
Yeah.
Craig: mm hmm, now, for those of those that can't instantly grow
into a huge muscle beast or can't instantly pump their balls up to
enormous size or take a fist, what sort of gear and aesthetics can people
adopt if they want to get into this?
Mnfcuk: come on cow prints Talk to me Harry Winston.
Tell me all about it
Craig: Brown cow stunning!
Adam: Cow print is a very popular print, especially if you go on to Etsy, you will
find all sorts of fun gear, some of which will work for some body types, some of
which will work for other body types.
Because so much of it is focused around cis women, you will eventually find things
that simply do not work on your body.
if you do not have that silhouette.
I had the very first time this has ever happened of ordering
something, it's showing up and going, I'm not big enough to wear this.
Mnfcuk: What?
Hot.
Craig: really?
Adam: My tits weren't big enough to make this, like, Daisy
Duke style tie off shirt work.
It just looked ridiculous on me.
I ended up having to palm it off to another HuCow who is closer
to the 5XL side of things.
It was actually Amazing.
But yes, if you go down the raver scene, you will see a lot of what
I am wearing now for the cameras.
Gamers, you will see that halter tops are very good for us, the arm warmers.
Likewise, great for showing off your bicep growth.
You will have plenty of leggings out there.
You will have plenty of boots out there.
You will see lots of shirts.
You will see lots of thongs, jockstraps, briefs, shorts.
As of time of recording, it is summer 2024.
MCE Creations has released a line of cowboy chic for this season.
Among them is a bunch of very good mesh shorts that are really
comfortable in this current heat wave.
Yeah, no, for literally anything, start with Etsy.
You will find all of your niche fetishes there.
And you can start exploring from there.
Likewise, as I said before, the cis women tended to be where this has been
most popular for the last however long.
So if you're going down the latex route, you will find most of that on sites that
cater to the straight fetish community.
Latex catfish has some amazing stuff, but if you really want something to
just begin with And you don't fancy going down the piercings route?
Bell, it works.
It's really good.
You enter the headset,
Mnfcuk: dong, darling.
Ding dong.
Craig: they are good.
And they have the extra bonus of, if you're particularly into like humiliation
or attention being drawn to you, when you move, they clank and ding, which
again, they are so good for this.
Adam: and do not be afraid to add tape to the little ringer on the inside if
you want to muffle it a little bit.
It doesn't make the whole sound go away, but it does just turn the volume
down a little bit so you don't go insane wearing this thing around.
Mnfcuk: real life hacks right here.
This is
Craig: like,
Mnfcuk: the other bulls in the pen are sleeping.
And so you want to be
Craig: mm hmm.
Mnfcuk: right?
Craig: Yeah, and I mean, a little tip I got was so at Darklins,
there was someone I met.
Oh, God, and I forgot his screen name.
Oh, God.
I will edit this into the show notes, at least, because
he deserves credit for this.
He got clip on so they were actually Bowser horns?
Clip on Bowser horns for his Muircap?
Adam: Yes, I've
Craig: Yes.
Adam: Etsy, again, they haven't arrived yet.
They were supposed to.
The mail is being slow today.
But, oh my god, they look so good!
Yes!
Mnfcuk: Yeah
Craig: so,
Mnfcuk: I love
Craig: I've got it.
Remembered it's leather bear solid.
Like go check him out.
He is this enormous muscle bear and looks amazing in them.
But yeah, so I copied that and have it on my leather Castro cap.
I've got.
And I do wonder, it seems a, an interesting coincidence that
bull and cow play becomes popular right as the rest of the gays are
getting really into cowboy stuff.
Mnfcuk: I thought you were gonna say, right as the rest of the boys are
getting right, really, into Ozempic.
Everyone
Craig: another
Adam: oh,
Mnfcuk: away.
Craig: route to go down.
Mnfcuk: Yeah, no, I had a, I have a friend of mine right
now who I love so much in SF.
Craig: Hmm.
Mnfcuk: he is bulking and he's getting bigger and bigger and he's
like, I actually really like this.
And so his go to threat for me has been, it's like Samson, if you don't come
over and play video games right now, then I'm going to start taking Ozempic.
And I'm like, No!
Stop!
Please!
That, that will
Adam: oh,
Mnfcuk: me
Adam: yeah!
Mnfcuk: How dare you.
Craig: How dare.
But yeah, it is convenient that basically after Beyonce and Orville
Peck and Kylie have conspired to make the gays all wear cowboy hats.
also come into fashion.
Oh
Adam: I personally see this as just a wonderful convenience.
Sorry.
Coincidence.
Words.
I can say.
I promise.
I went to school and everything.
Mnfcuk: Aw, big dumb guy.
Aw, big dumb moo cow.
So cute.
You don't need to think.
It's okay.
Craig: And listeners, it should be said, that wasn't a sound effect.
That was actually Adam mooing.
Mnfcuk: was very good.
Adam: Thank you.
Yeah It is on the back of the throat.
Mnfcuk: it!
Adam: You don't use your tongue.
You force the air through your nose.
It is actually really sinus y.
It's sort of like humming violently.
Mnfcuk: I love that.
Humming violently.
Craig: So, yeah, so I think we should get to some listener
questions we've been submitted.
So,
Adam: guys.
Craig: so first one, I think we've kind of covered this, so on.
Another guest on the show, amazing go listen to his episode on like bully play.
When I was poking around the cowhead space, which was admittedly a few years
ago, it was taken up by a lot of cis women, because of the idea of milking.
that changed?
Adam: Yes.
Answer.
It's
Craig: like, as you say, most of the gear is still aimed at women, but like,
Adam: were here first, I will not deny, and it is still predominantly
them in the scene, however, there are more and more of everyone else every
day do not be surprised when you get invited to Discord groups, Telegram
groups, all that good stuff but yeah, no, there's more of the rest of us every
day it's not just the girls anymore.
Craig: mhm, it's now for the girls, the gays in the days.
Mnfcuk: Work, we love,
Adam: Actually, that's a point.
I haven't seen many straight men in it.
Hmm.
Fascinating.
Anyway.
Craig: yes.
Mnfcuk: egos do not allow for that yet.
Adam: You'd think they'd like the bull's side.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: but I'm like, no, this, can we keep, let's keep, let's keep this
as our best kept secret, you know,
Adam: Sure.
Craig: So aspiring Dom, who is a big player on our Discord.
He's got two questions.
One, would you consider wearing a red kilt or jockstrap a challenge?
This is obviously playing in, because reds, you know, Red rags to a bull.
No, no, no,
Mnfcuk: Oh, okay.
Oh, oh, as a challenge.
So not like as in a challenge, like it's hard to wear.
That was my brain.
I was like, wearing a
Craig: no, no I ain't trick or treating.
Yeah.
Mnfcuk: about?
I'm dumb, sorry.
Craig: Like a, like a Matador.
And now I'm thinking like a good Dom for a bull would be
wearing a leather Matador outfit.
Adam: Oh my god, yes.
Mnfcuk: But then they would have to be fighting, right?
Craig: But that's part of it.
You're subduing this bigger, more muscular person than you.
Mnfcuk: Yeah, yeah, I could see that as being hot for sure.
Adam: And the short answer is, wear it at the Eagle and see.
Mnfcuk: Olay!
You know.
Next time you're in
Craig: for
Adam: heavy is this guy?
Mnfcuk: SF, Adam, let's go.
Adam: Mindfuck, you don't know I can throw you against the
wall and make out with you.
And it's gonna You're
Mnfcuk: Not if I gain 300 pounds by the time you get here!
Adam: on.
You have six weeks.
Go.
Mnfcuk: It's just calories.
Yeah,
Craig: So, next question.
Favorite bull slash cow puns to use?
This is for science
Adam: As an American citizen now, I get to claim I get to plead the fifth.
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: I like like moo, moving
Craig: Mm
Mnfcuk: kind of,
Craig: mm-Hmm?
Mnfcuk: that's probably my go to just because there's so many
areas where that's, that's, yeah.
Applicable and usable,
Adam: No, for me
Mnfcuk: out.
They do come out.
I feel like I have the unique and unfortunate disposition of a way to
annoy everybody in the room with my puns.
So somebody can say something in my brain will just, you know, my, my, my
two brain cells that are still left.
That are not these, like you said, testosterone poisoned.
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: We'll connect and light up and my world will go, hmm, hooves or something.
Craig: My favorite was one Rugger came up and it was as a cow,
how do you know its pasture?
Bedtime.
Mnfcuk: Oh my God.
Work.
Adam: Okay, I'm going home.
Mnfcuk: because
Adam: you very much.
It's been wonderful.
Okay, fine.
Mnfcuk: time.
Adam: it's always the a bull ending of any word, so like, huggable, adorable, fu
It works better written down than spoken.
Craig: No, no, spoken, it's very clear and I love it.
So we have one for the adorable Banjo.
Which, which do you think, what, which do you prefer being milked, Bullcow?
Your udder or your teats, or do you prefer being used as breeding stock?
I'm guessing this is pointed at Adam.
Adam: Sorry, not sorry, Breedingstock, all the way.
It's just more fun for me, personally.
Teats are more fun for me than udder, personally.
But Breedingstock is still number one.
Please and thank you.
Mnfcuk: Here's what I do.
I say, Hey.
We're going to hook you up to the machine.
And once you produce a gallon of milk, then you will earn the right to be bred.
Adam: Yeah?
Okay.
We're gonna be here a while.
Craig: milk?
Adam: Looking forward to it.
Hope you don't mind my mooing literally all day.
You'll get to enjoy your show.
Mnfcuk: I have, I have cool neighbors.
They'll be fine.
Craig: So we have our last question, which is from Rugga.
And he's asked,
so I'm in a couple of cow slash bull chats, and I asked them if they have
any questions, and one which came up was how much difference is there between
gay and straight cow or slash bull play?
One thing that came up a lot was amongst my friends, a lot of cowboy
play is very lifestyle oriented.
People who gain muscle gainers, who do body modification cow tags, earrings.
Recently became super popular with my friends.
I must confess to really want to get one once I stop playing rugby.
And of course, bullring septums, have the relationship lifestyle,
regular inspections, control, food intake, regular etc.
But none of them knew any straight people who did the cow lifestyle, so they were
wondering if there was a lack of their own network, or a more common thing generally.
Adam: My,
Craig: this is asking, do straight people do it as a lifestyle
the same way a lot of gays and furries do it as a full lifestyle?
Adam: that's just it.
My experience has mostly been with the new furries and the tumblr community
before settling in with the gays.
The furries absolutely do it as a lifestyle because furries, we do not.
do things by hearth.
Once you have accepted you're a furry, you just, you seek your pleasure and
you realize that life is too short to be embarrassed and do things the normie way.
The Tumblr community, I have seen a little bit of both, but certainly a
lot more down the this is just what we do in the bedroom, we get dressed up,
we have our fun, we take our clothes off, and then we're back to normal.
There are plenty.
because Tumblr who do go down the lifestyle path.
You will see plenty of HuCal cis women who absolutely are going down the
lifestyle, who have the piercings, who have the level of control,
who have the relationship dynamic.
But you'll also see plenty who don't.
By comparison, I've basically only seen gay furries who do
it the non lifestyle route.
Basically everyone else in the gay community who I've seen go
down this path have integrated it into their lifestyle in some way,
much the same as like the puppies.
Even if all it is is that you're adding puns and you're seeking to have
that relationship dynamic integrated into your existing relationship.
Again, you seek your pleasure and you don't be satisfied
with just a half measure of it.
Which is very gay of us and I'm okay with that.
Craig: Yeah,
Mnfcuk: Yeah.
I agree.
I think it's much easier.
I think maybe as, as gay men this is something that I've been
thinking a lot about with just the way that we live our lives.
We already, in most areas of the world are going to be looked
at as different and weird,
Craig: mm hmm,
Mnfcuk: with your partner there's, you're, you're already part of the minority.
People are already going to be looking at you kind of funny.
So in a way that kind of is what you were saying with these, with, with,
with furries not having these half measures of pleasure, it's like you.
If you don't kind of have this wonderful existential permission,
then if you're already going to
Craig: mm hmm,
Mnfcuk: might as well do what makes you happy.
You might as well do what is going to bring you the most amount of happiness.
And straight people don't have that.
They, they can walk down the street holding hands and it's just,
I mean, another person that's, you're almost invisible, right?
So it's, it's a pretty remarkable thing to be kind of, you know
yeah, given that permission by society to be like, you know what?
I'm already going to be looked at funny.
I might as well get super huge, get these piercings, get what's going
to make me happy and live this as a 24 seven lifestyle and not just
take it off when I'm done with it.
Craig: yeah.
And I feel, especially for sort of mass, what's the word I'm looking for?
male at birth people, like the size aspect of the muscular, you're going
to have to build in like a lot of lifestyle stuff to maintain that.
Mm
Adam: It takes time.
It takes dedication.
You don't get to just do this for half an hour a week and be done with it.
I did not get to 150 kilograms, 325 pounds by just, you know,
by doing this 10 minutes a week.
Craig: Yeah.
Adam: you just don't, I'm sorry, the body doesn't work that way.
We don't have that magic pill yet.
I'd love it if we did.
I'd have so much more free time on my hands, but,
Craig: Mm
Hmm.
Mm
Adam: you'd learn to enjoy the process.
There is a deep pleasure in feeling that ache, but the good ache, the ache
of I'm going to be stronger tomorrow.
You get a deep pleasure in seeing something that was impossible a month ago.
be fine now and mundane next month.
And because the maximalist mindset, because the more always
mindset, that transfers.
You start training all sorts of aspects of life and you start wanting more
and you start feeling that progress and feeling that growth and feeling that,
again, that progress towards your goals.
And.
It lends itself to fisting training, it does lend itself to chastity, it does
lend itself to growing your nipples with pumps, it lends itself to all of
things, it even lends itself to work.
I managed to turn, like, the gainer, muscle gainer, bull,
maximalist mindset to my studies
because I was making progress.
I was seeing the growth.
I wanted more.
And why did that work for Algebra?
Why did I get the same joy as building my biceps and being able to do a pull
up as finally understanding Calculus 3?
Craig: Yeah.
Like,
Adam: Minds are weird.
Craig: yeah.
But it does tie into like, what we find a lot on this show when talking
to people's kinks is like, we, we like to think of them as these boxed off
things we do in the bedroom or the club, but they often teach skills you
can really transfer out into life.
Adam: Mm mm.
Craig: And especially if you find a kink or a lifestyle that grounds you
and really makes you happy, you start excelling in other parts of your life
because that happiness carries over.
And there is one more note, I feel like this may come off as a bit tacked on
because we've talked about muscular growth as like a big part of this.
It's not for everyone.
You do not have to have a certain body type to do cow or bull play.
We've talked, as we've talked about, like the actions you do, how you
are treated, the mindset, even if you just want to wear cow print,
those all can be bull or play alone.
You don't need to build a muscular body to feel like you have to do this.
That's not a gate to hell.
Not a gatekeep, that makes no sense.
This is not something that like having a different size body
would prevent you from doing.
This is just because like, we particularly like that aspect of it.
Adam: Some of the best Cowplay and Transformation Hypno Subs Struggling
the word, the best cow I know.
He is like a 150kg at best, 70kg at best twink who just makes it work.
It is incredible.
You see it in his eyes.
You see it in his movement.
You hear it in his voice.
The ecstasy in him.
It's infectious.
Even just a video is enough.
Even just a drawing of him is enough.
Like, fucking hell Logan, why aren't you gaining?
I want to see you
not to.
You can be a skinny cow too, and I will just sit here and fantasize about
you with an extra, like, 300 pounds.
Craig: Like the fantasizing is fun.
And again, we've talked how hypno can be used with it.
One of the funnest things I've had is have a hypno dom make me
think I'm so like, sort of like.
Like internal hallucinations as I call them and just sensation.
He put in the suggestion when I was under that I was basically
too huge of muscular to move.
Adam: Mm hmm.
Craig: but like, you can still feel that way.
Mnfcuk: absolutely.
That's one of the fun things about, yeah, about hypnosis in general is that
you can, again, kind of similar to art that we were talking about earlier, you
Craig: Yeah.
Mnfcuk: impossible scenarios that work.
Even though it's not something that you can necessarily ground in reality,
but to your brain, it is real, and that's all we really have, right?
Craig: Exactly.
We are coming up to time.
I've seen we're past an hour now, so we are going to have to wrap this up.
But before we go, is there any final words you guys want to give and
where online can people find you?
Adam: Mindfuck, go ahead.
Mnfcuk: Oh so I am on Twitter at Mindfuck, M N D F C U K.
In terms of final words, yeah, I would just say if it sounds like
it's something that's interesting to you, right Life again, life is
too short to go half measure, right?
Like you give it a shot.
See, see if that's something that, that is interesting to you.
Try it a little bit, maybe see if that's something that, stirs a greater interest.
But yeah, that's, that's probably, that's probably it for me.
Craig: Nice, Adam
Adam: You can find me on Twitter, I, I've finally gotten my Twitter back
at GiantBritishPup and, yeah, just.
Life is too short to not try everything you're into.
Just short.
People are gonna be weird about it.
They're gonna be weird about you doing anything.
They're gonna be weird about you wearing your shirt with the
buttons done up or not done up.
Just go have fun.
Enjoy.
Be weird.
Life is too short to not be.
And drink your milk.
Craig: got milk.
Yes.
So as always listeners, you can write in and find us kinky boys
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