Explicit 87: Beginner’s Bathhouse Guide
S04:E87

87: Beginner’s Bathhouse Guide

Episode description

Craig and David Give a beginners guide to gay saunas/bathhouses. They go over what you can expect, and how pickup etiquette functions, and how to navigate the space.

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0:00

Craig: hello and welcome again to the kinky boys podcast.

0:03

Today we are talking about gay bath houses or saunas depending on

0:08

what, which country you're from.

0:10

So before we get to that, this episode, we're going to thank our daddy's

0:14

favorite patrons, but we're going to do it in a special thematic way because

0:19

we're going to go through a virtual tour of the kinky boys sauna complex.

0:25

So, come with me.

0:27

As we start, of course, past the door into the locker room, we have

0:32

Southern Suiter putting away his impeccable suit in exchange for a towel.

0:36

As we leave the changing rooms and go through the chill out bar area, we

0:41

have Hillary P with a cocktail in hand.

0:44

Next level down, we go through the communal shower

0:47

section, where we see Brian C.

0:49

soaping himself up.

0:51

Past that, relaxing in the dry sauna room, is our newest members,

0:55

Frank Slimleather and Adam NYC.

0:58

Next door to that, we have the lovely Ochnurb, basking in the steam room.

1:04

Round the corner, down the hall in the dark cabin section, we

1:07

can hear Banjo, Stewie and Adam F., even if we can't see them.

1:12

And finally, joining me here in the bubbling hot tub, where we are recording

1:17

this very episode, is Hairy Hypnotist.

1:20

David: Well, hello, nice to see

1:22

Craig: Hello.

1:26

David: So

1:27

Craig: Yes.

1:27

David: talking about saunas or bath houses and thought it would be nice to talk

1:31

about sort of a guide or an introduction for people who are curious about them

1:36

and have never been to one before.

1:38

Craig: Yeah, because it can be a very nerve wracking experience and

1:43

it's one of those things where often you're expected to know the way of

1:49

doing things, when no one's actually s

1:52

David: there's a lot of

1:53

Craig: Yeah.

1:53

David: communication, a lot of

1:55

Craig: Yeah.

1:56

David: assumptions and expectations of people.

1:58

And that can be difficult if you don't know what you're doing.

2:02

Craig: Oh yeah.

2:03

It's like, I remember one of the most helpful videos I ever saw was it's

2:06

by a creator called Leather Edge.

2:09

He does the Full Cow podcast.

2:12

And he actually did a guide to physical and verbal cues

2:17

when cruising out in public.

2:20

And this was amazing because no one had ever sat down and explained like, well,

2:24

this is what this eye movement means.

2:26

And this is how you do the, you know, this is how you do the dance

2:30

of cruising someone in public.

2:32

David: Interesting.

2:33

I haven't seen that.

2:33

Maybe I should.

2:35

Craig: Yeah.

2:35

I'll sit, I'll try and dig it up and send it to you.

2:37

But I remember a lot of people have the same reaction where like.

2:41

You're expected to know these things in the sort of gay bi

2:45

world, but no one has ever actually sat you down and explained them.

2:48

David: Yeah.

2:48

Craig: So,

2:49

David: So

2:50

Craig: let's exp

2:50

David: to be the same sort of thing, but Craig, can you make sure that there's

2:54

a link to that video you just mentioned in the liner notes for this episode

2:57

Craig: We'll do.

2:58

David: Excellent.

3:02

Craig: Yes, we'll do.

3:03

So, I think, let's do a little background.

3:07

I've done a tiny bit of research on this for history.

3:11

And it's actually quite interesting about the names.

3:13

So in America these are typically called bath houses.

3:17

In the UK, we call them saunas.

3:20

However, the term bath house originally came from Britain.

3:23

So back in the 1800s, where you had large builds ups in cities like London,

3:30

Birmingham, that sort of thing, no one had indoor plumbing, but you had a

3:34

large amount of people living together.

3:36

So there was.

3:37

The public bathhouses where you would go to wash and clean and shower and bath.

3:43

David: So it was

3:43

Craig: of the,

3:44

David: purely functional in nature.

3:46

It wasn't so

3:47

Craig: yes,

3:48

David: It was about hygiene.

3:50

Craig: exactly.

3:51

But of course, with these things, whenever you get something crop up,

3:54

you also get the more premium version.

3:58

In this case, in sort of 1800s to Victorian England were the Turkish

4:04

bathhouses, which tend to be, tended to be a lot nicer, like better tiling.

4:10

They also had things like massage and that on hand, if you're willing to pay extra.

4:16

David: have that sort of thing today.

4:18

I think they're called hammams.

4:20

Yeah, it's, it's the same concept.

4:22

It's like a bathhouse, but with a tendons to give you massages

4:25

and do things like that.

4:27

Craig: Exactly.

4:29

And some of these Turkish bathhouses got a bit of reputation about

4:33

the clientele that went there.

4:35

One of a recorded note was the Savoy Turkish baths in Jeremy Street.

4:42

And this was around 1930.

4:45

Which of course, you know, you got a reputation of that's where the

4:48

homosexuals go to cruise each other.

4:51

And so.

4:53

That's the, they further gain that sort of clientele.

4:56

Now with the introduction of indoor plumbing, public bath houses as a

5:00

business started to really dwindle.

5:02

So the few that were left actually kind of deliberately started turning

5:06

a blind eye to sort of male, male sexual activity because they were

5:10

customers that kept coming, even if they didn't need a bath house anymore.

5:17

And so a lot of,

5:18

David: else.

5:19

Craig: Yes, so a lot of bathhouses carried on this way.

5:24

By the 1970s bathhouses were mostly a big center for sex.

5:28

This was, you know, sexual revolution, a lot of homosexual acceptance

5:32

coming out before the AIDS crisis.

5:35

And yeah, these would actually be quite successful.

5:39

And some were actually quite large.

5:41

They had full stages and restaurant sections, some of them.

5:45

And famously.

5:47

Bette Midler got her start singing at gay bathhouses.

5:52

Yep,

5:54

David: Midler, but I did know that some bathhouses had live performances of like

5:59

theater and comedy and things like that.

6:03

Craig: they, they were way more community centers than what

6:06

people might expect nowadays.

6:08

But yes, Bette Midler got her start there and she said she was very

6:11

proud to be known as Bathhouse Betty.

6:15

David: I like

6:16

Craig: Yeah.

6:17

Then of course came the AIDS crisis and a lot of bathhouses got shut down.

6:21

Very famously, San Francisco banned all bathhouses for a while

6:26

because they were seen as sort of major spreading centers of HIV.

6:30

That got challenged and eventually revoked because people made the

6:34

point that you're not getting rid of people having sex, you're just

6:37

removing a safe and constructive environment for them to have sex in.

6:43

David: Yeah.

6:43

Craig: And like, bathhouses, you can do safe sex education, you can hand out

6:48

condoms, gratis, that sort of thing.

6:51

And even today, a lot of sexual health awareness groups have days where they

6:54

go to bathhouses and do things like on site STD testing, and handing out

7:00

condoms and, like, getting people signed up for PrEP, that sort of thing.

7:05

David: Nice.

7:06

Yeah, I've seen that

7:07

Craig: Yeah.

7:11

Yeah, so that's sort of the rough history I've been able to piece together.

7:16

I will put in the show notes the articles I cited for this because I am not James

7:20

Somerton and I do cite my sources.

7:23

David: Good for you.

7:25

Craig: Yes.

7:27

So let's move on to sort of our basic guide for people going to

7:32

the sauna for the first time.

7:33

Yeah.

7:37

David: a couple of different kinds of saunas or bath houses, it probably helps

7:42

to get an idea of what kind of facility you're entering, you can either get a

7:48

feel for that ahead of time by scoping out reviews and the way that the establishment

7:53

advertises itself, or you can pretty clearly tell once you enter as well.

7:59

So different saunas are optimized for different purposes.

8:04

For starters, there are some saunas, particularly in Europe, that are non

8:10

sexual, people do take off their clothes and sit together in rooms with steam,

8:17

but the expectation and the culture, and usually even the rules, expressly

8:21

prohibit any sort of sexual contact.

8:24

It is a non sexual relaxation activity.

8:28

Craig: Yeah.

8:29

David: hand, there are also saunas that are very clearly and explicitly sexual.

8:35

So having some idea of which establishment that you're going into probably help.

8:43

In my experience, they will tell you very clearly and explicitly

8:48

if sex is off the table.

8:50

And if they don't say anything about that, especially if they say something like this

8:55

is a sauna for men, then that probably means that you're going to a sexy sauna.

9:03

Craig: And like, a lot of the sexy saunas, at least, like, in the

9:06

UK, very prominently advertise in local gay mag Like, we have a lot

9:12

of free community magazines, and they advertise heavily in there.

9:16

So, it's very easy to find the sort of ones that are

9:19

explicitly for male male sex.

9:21

David: Exactly.

9:22

It's, it's usually not that hard to figure out the difference.

9:25

Craig: Mm hmm.

9:26

Yeah.

9:26

Mm hmm.

9:28

Mm

9:28

David: going to talk about the saunas that are purely for relaxation and not

9:33

about sex, because I don't think that's so relevant for the topic of this podcast.

9:38

We're going to talk more about the saunas that allow and even tacitly

9:42

Craig: hmm.

9:43

David: sexual contact between the patrons.

9:46

Craig: Yeah.

9:47

David: However, it's important to point out that just because

9:50

you go to a sauna where that sort of sexual contact is allowed.

9:54

does not mean that it's required.

9:56

It is never required.

9:59

You should always feel comfortable relaxing, watching, and just

10:05

doing whatever you want to do in a sauna environment.

10:08

And It doesn't need to involve any sexual contact with someone else.

10:13

If you ever feel pressured to have sex, particularly pressured by

10:17

someone else that you don't want to have sex with, that is a problem.

10:20

And if

10:21

Craig: Mm hmm.

10:21

David: on a recurring basis, it should be reported to the people who run the

10:24

sauna, because that's not a, not a safe or a healthy environment to be in.

10:29

Craig: No.

10:30

And this is the thing a lot of people go, even though they're explicitly

10:34

sexual spaces, and I myself am like this, where I go just to chill out.

10:40

David: Yeah.

10:41

One of the nice things about a sauna is it's an environment

10:45

that is designed for relaxation.

10:47

Craig: hmm.

10:48

David: And some people, when they're around people that they find attractive

10:54

and they're in a relaxed environment, their thoughts naturally turn more

10:58

sexual, which is why this sort of thing tends to happen in a sauna environment,

11:02

Craig: Yeah.

11:03

David: but it's never required.

11:06

I would say that the three main intentions you might say of a sauna

11:11

Craig: Mm hmm.

11:12

David: Relaxation, socializing, and sexual activity.

11:17

Craig: Yes.

11:18

David: can dip into any or all of those buckets and have a nice time,

11:22

no matter how you spend your time.

11:24

Craig: Yes, and I think it's worth saying on this point that a lot of saunas have

11:28

sort of a graded a graded way of sexual interaction, and what I mean by that is,

11:35

Often explicitly you'll have sort of a chill out section where no sex happens.

11:39

Often these are lounge like, they have sofas, you have what I found for

11:46

most venues is like they all have a big jacuzzi and that is No explicit

11:53

sex, but this is where people often go to flirt or just enjoy the jacuzzi

11:57

David: Absolutely.

11:58

Craig: sort of section.

11:59

And then in the more closed off areas, like saunas, steam rooms, you may get sex.

12:05

And then there's often cabin areas where they are explicitly sexual.

12:11

So if you're worried about going like, Oh God, I feel nervous in a

12:14

sexual environment, Remember it's graded, like, you can just hang out

12:18

in the jacuzzi for a bit and get it climatized, you're not going to

12:22

instantly be faced with people fucking.

12:24

Most of the time.

12:26

There are exceptions, especially when it gets busy, but most of the

12:29

time the sauna's the flirtation period, not the sexual zone.

12:36

David: Yeah, I would agree with that.

12:38

Craig: Yeah.

12:39

David: but I think actually a good place to get started is not the various

12:42

different areas inside of the sauna, but what happens when you first enter.

12:47

So, typically, when you go in the main entrance of the sauna, there's

12:51

some kind of desk with someone who will accept a fee for entrance and

12:57

how much they charge ranges wildly,

13:00

Craig: Mm hmm.

13:01

Mm

13:01

David: you are and what the quality of the sauna is, but they will

13:04

typically ask you to pay for entrance.

13:07

And they will give you a fresh towel so you don't need to bring anything yourself.

13:12

Craig: hmm.

13:13

David: you some kind of key or access to a locker in their locker room.

13:18

So, once you get inside, you typically start in the locker room.

13:23

And actually vividly remember the very first time that I ever went to a sauna.

13:29

Again, because nobody told me these things, I made the assumption

13:33

that the lockers were optional.

13:35

assumed that you could just bypass the lockers and walk into the

13:40

rest of the sauna fully clothed because nobody told me otherwise.

13:45

Turns out that is a big cultural faux pas.

13:49

you enter a sauna and you go to the locker room, the expectation, the norm,

13:54

is you're supposed to take off all of your clothes, underwear included.

13:58

Put them in the locker and wrap a towel around yourself, the towel that they

14:02

give you at the check in desk so that essentially you are fully naked except

14:08

for a towel and you can wander around and dip in the water without having

14:13

to take anything off except your towel and enjoy being in an environment

14:19

where clothes are not a factor.

14:23

So the changing room is a place where you see people taking off

14:29

their clothes and getting naked.

14:30

And depending on how social the sauna is, sometimes this

14:34

happens in complete silence.

14:35

Sometimes there are guys who know each other, who are chatting with

14:38

each other while going through this.

14:41

It really depends.

14:42

But though people might feel a little shy and inhibited about taking off their

14:47

clothes, it's a little easier to do so in a room where that is the expectation

14:52

and the norm, and everyone is doing this.

14:56

So would say even if you're one of those people who's a little shy about

15:00

that, don't worry too much about it.

15:03

And if you really want to like carefully wrap your towel around you to be sure

15:08

that nobody sees your dick while you're taking off your pants, you can, most

15:13

people don't seem to care too much about that, particularly because in

15:18

not too long, there may be someone that they want to show their dick to.

15:22

Craig: Yeah.

15:23

It's a fairly open and free environment.

15:26

Again, along with clothes, you are expected to put your phone away,

15:29

David: Yes, that as

15:30

Craig: which, because obviously it's a big thing, phone cameras.

15:36

And I know certain saunas go the extra step of you have to hand in your phone.

15:42

When you pay at the front desk now as basically a security

15:46

measure, because, you know, most people do put their phones away.

15:49

Unfortunately, you do get some people that try and film people, which, yeah.

15:55

David: it's it's definitely a privacy violation and

15:59

Craig: Mm hmm.

15:59

David: is that what happens in the sauna is private and will not be recorded.

16:04

Craig: Yeah.

16:05

So, so that's the locker room section.

16:07

What's next?

16:09

David: you've taken off all of your clothes and you're wearing just

16:11

a towel typically the next area that you enter is going to be some

16:16

kind of a social relaxation area.

16:20

There might be chairs and tables, there might be couches, there might be just like

16:27

benches against a wall, but typically it's a place to just sort of sit down, get your

16:33

bearings, and decide where you want to go next, because most saunas have several

16:38

different options for different, I'm going to call them relaxation experiences.

16:44

That

16:44

Craig: Mm hmm.

16:45

David: of weird, but I can't think of a better way of putting it.

16:48

So it, it's going to depend on the layout of the sauna, but typically once you exit

16:53

the locker rooms, you have some sort of a central area, some sort of a social space.

16:58

And as Craig was saying, this is a space that is sort of a gradation of sexuality.

17:05

It's, it's not very sexual in this space.

17:08

Typically it's a place where you can say hi to other people, where you can relax.

17:13

Some saunas also have a place where you can buy food and drink,

17:18

either from a vending machine or sometimes with an actual kitchen

17:22

that will cook for you and bartenders who will prepare drinks for you.

17:27

I've really enjoyed coming to Europe and discovering that there's a lot of saunas

17:31

that have this sort of like, prepared food and drink service for you in the sauna.

17:36

I thought that was really cool because in the U S where I grew up, the only

17:39

saunas I had ever been to only had vending machines for this sort of thing.

17:44

Craig: Yeah, no, it's really nice and, like, the food quality varies.

17:48

Sometimes the best you'll get is a sandwich.

17:51

Sometimes you get full plated meals which are really good quality.

17:55

David: Yeah.

17:57

I mean expectation from the sauna perspective is they want people to

18:02

have a good time and want to come

18:03

Craig: Mm hmm.

18:04

David: and again, particularly because they charge for entrance.

18:07

So I think that investing in the infrastructure to provide a nice

18:11

meal and good drinks makes people enjoy the experience more and

18:14

what makes them want to come back.

18:16

So if you're lucky enough to go to a sauna that has that sort of food

18:20

service, you might find that the food quality is better than you expect.

18:23

Craig: You know, So a lot of them serve drinks and cocktails particularly.

18:28

Partially because some people like a little social lubrication, obviously

18:33

this should be enjoyed in moderation.

18:36

David: absolutely.

18:39

So.

18:41

In this central relaxation area, from there, you need to decide where you want

18:47

to go next once you're ready to move on.

18:50

And different saunas have different facilities, of course, but you're

18:54

typically going to have your steam room and your dry sauna, at least.

18:59

So the steam room, as the name implies, is a room that is full of thick, hot steam.

19:07

Personally, I'm not a big fan of steam rooms because the

19:11

steam makes it hard to see.

19:12

And for me, the thick air is a little bit hard to breathe even, but I know

19:17

that there are lots of people who enjoy steam rooms for precisely that reason.

19:22

that the lack of visibility can make it exciting to see shapes in the room

19:29

of other men who might be jerking off.

19:32

and the, the thick steamy environment can make it more exciting

19:37

and arousing for sex as well.

19:38

Personally, that's not my scene, but I know people who definitely enjoy that.

19:44

And then the dry sauna room is a room that is just like the steam

19:49

room, but instead of being full of steam, it's just dry and hot.

19:54

Craig: Yeah, this is also, sorry, this is also known as Swedish saunas.

19:58

They're

19:59

David: yes.

20:00

Craig: wood paneled with the coals or simulated coals to produce dry heat.

20:06

David: Yes.

20:07

And the expectation is that you sit down, enjoy the heat sweat, that's part of it.

20:13

And, sometimes look at the other people as well and enjoy them as well.

20:17

Yeah.

20:18

Craig: Yes, like, I've seen other people playing in the dry, dry sauna, and I

20:24

have to say, that's a bit beyond me.

20:25

The temperatures in there kind of put me off playing in that sort of environment.

20:31

David: I think some people, some bodies are more sensitive

20:35

Craig: Mm hmm.

20:36

David: others.

20:37

And like you, I typically don't play very much in these rooms that are very hot.

20:42

They are nice to go into for brief periods of time to experience that temperature

20:47

difference, to sweat for a bit, and then to cool off in a different room.

20:53

I'm not a fan of playing in those rooms very much, but exceptions happen.

20:58

Craig: Yeah.

20:59

Typically near them, depending on the quality of the sauna, there will

21:03

be either a plunge pool or a plunge shower where it's literally you douse

21:08

yourself with a lot of cold water straight after coming out the sauna.

21:11

Which apparently is meant to have health benefits.

21:14

I'm not sure about the science around that, but apparently they do.

21:18

David: I'm not sure either, but some people love it.

21:22

Craig: Yes.

21:23

And I think,

21:24

David: go ahead.

21:25

Craig: I think maybe next to that we should talk about a lot of

21:28

them have unique shower setups.

21:30

David: That's true.

21:31

Yes.

21:32

So these sexual saunas tend to have gang shower setups, which is to say a

21:40

room with multiple shower heads, side by side by side, without any division in

21:46

between the areas where people shower.

21:49

So that is.

21:50

Set up to encourage people to shower and soap up while standing literally

21:57

right next to each other, can sometimes result in some fun sexual opportunities.

22:06

So it's, as I mentioned earlier, it is never required to play with someone,

22:12

but it can be exciting to someone else soaping up and literally touching

22:19

themselves while under the stream of water and to do the same thing.

22:24

if that's your thing, then that's totally possible.

22:26

On the other hand, these shower setups are usually not fully occupied.

22:32

Except, except maybe during the busiest times.

22:35

But even

22:35

Craig: Mm hmm.

22:36

David: think of a time that I've seen a gang shower that was fully occupied.

22:40

Every single shower had had someone under it.

22:43

So if you're not looking for that, you can typically find a place

22:46

to shower that is at least some distance away from the other patrons.

22:51

So makes it

22:53

Craig: Yeah.

22:53

David: to get some separation and to avoid that kind of sexual

22:56

contact if you don't want it.

23:01

Aside from the saunas and the shower, there's typically also, again, depending

23:08

on which bathhouse you're going

23:10

Craig: Mm hmm.

23:10

David: there's usually some kind of submersible water available.

23:16

Whether that is a hot tub or a swimming pool or some kind of

23:21

lap pool or something like that.

23:24

I mean, these places are called bath houses.

23:26

So it does make sense that there would be something

23:28

Craig: Yeah.

23:29

David: that you could get

23:29

Craig: Mm hmm.

23:31

David: Sometimes these things are large, sometimes they're small, and usually

23:36

when they're on the smaller side, there's still enough room for maybe

23:40

two or three people to get into like a small hot tub or something like that.

23:46

And as a result, there's almost always signs up saying no sex in the hot tub.

23:52

Craig: Mm hmm.

23:53

David: End.

23:54

They have to do that for the simple reasons of hygiene, because when

24:00

you have sexual activity in water, there is one, a high chance of

24:05

bacteria breeding and causing all

24:08

Craig: Mm hmm.

24:09

David: And two, these saunas need to be cleaned.

24:13

And if you have spooge in the water, then that can back up into

24:16

the filters and it's just nasty.

24:19

Nobody wants that.

24:20

So.

24:21

Yeah, don't have sex in the pool or in the hot tub.

24:26

being said, sexual contact, touching, kissing, stroking, playing with

24:33

someone's body is typically totally fine.

24:38

Craig: Yeah, these are typically the flirtation areas where you like your

24:42

eye someone up and initiate things.

24:47

And then afterwards, like after a bit of touching and contact, you'll

24:52

often progress to sections like the cabin area or the dark area

24:56

or whatever they have available.

24:58

So shall we talk about the sort of dance and visual and physical cues you

25:06

might receive in these sorts of areas?

25:09

David: I would like to do that, but I think I'd like to continue going over

25:12

the different areas of the sauna first

25:13

Craig: Sure.

25:14

David: the topic unfinished.

25:16

Craig: So we will put a pin in that and come back to that later.

25:18

David: Exactly.

25:20

So aside from the water areas, as you just mentioned, Craig, there typically is

25:25

some kind of a darkroom area or cabins.

25:28

And that is a space where usually the lighting is a bit lower, the temperature

25:33

is cool and comfortable as opposed to the, the saunas that were very hot.

25:39

the expectation is that you can find other guys who are interested in

25:44

something more explicitly sexual.

25:47

And when you go into one of these spaces, that is really when the

25:52

different nonverbal aspects of flirting come into play, but we'll

25:56

get to that later, as I mentioned.

25:58

these spaces might be small, they might be large.

26:03

there is something referred to as a maze there, and a maze is just an

26:08

area of the dark room that has lots of twisty corridors and is intentionally

26:14

designed so that you get a little bit lost, so that you don't quite

26:20

know what's coming around the bend.

26:23

And that can also be exciting because you don't know who you might come

26:28

across or what the situation might be.

26:31

you You can find a semi private corner and start playing with someone.

26:36

Sometimes somebody else comes up and joins you, and that can

26:39

Craig: Mm hmm.

26:39

David: or awkward, depending on the person.

26:43

But it's called a maze for a reason.

26:46

Not because it's, it's legitimately difficult to get out of, but because

26:50

it's meant to feel like you're not quite sure exactly where you are.

26:57

And then typically either next to the maze or even as part of the maze,

27:03

there might be little cabins and those are semi private spaces with a door.

27:10

Sometimes they have locks available.

27:11

Sometimes they don't have locks.

27:13

But the intention that is that if you find someone that you want to play

27:17

with, two of you or more than two, can go into one of these cabin spaces and

27:24

have some sexy fun together in an area that is semi private rather than public.

27:31

Now, saunas don't want their patrons to be able to go in there and fully lock

27:38

the doors, both because that allows for some possibilities of, activities

27:44

that people don't want to happen like drug use or abuse in various different

27:48

ways, which is why a lot of saunas that I've been to don't actually have

27:53

locks available on these little cabins.

27:56

Craig: Mm hmm.

27:57

David: the door and you can maybe put something like a towel in front of it so

28:01

that it doesn't just swing open by itself, but you can't actually lock yourself in.

28:06

And that is typically intentional.

28:09

Craig: Yeah.

28:10

I know some saunas around London deliberately offer lockable cabins as

28:14

a premium feature you have to pay for.

28:17

David: Yes, that's true.

28:18

Craig: And yeah, the typical sort of social norm I've come across

28:22

is, If you see one of these non lockable cabins with towels hanging

28:26

over the door, that basically means occupied, leave them alone.

28:31

David: Yep.

28:32

People come up with all sorts of different systems.

28:35

And yeah, if there's someone clearly inside, even if the door

28:40

isn't locked, the, the sort of etiquette, the expectation is don't

28:45

go inside unless you're invited.

28:47

Craig: Yeah.

28:50

And there are ways to invite people in.

28:53

David: Absolutely.

28:54

I think that's everything I can think of about the different spaces

28:57

that you might find in a sauna.

29:00

saunas might have more to it, such as performance spaces, as we talked

29:05

about before, if there's like comedy or theater happening in the sauna.

29:09

And that's a lot of fun, but I don't think that's really related

29:11

to the topic at hand, which is more about flirting and sex in a sauna.

29:16

Craig: Yes.

29:17

So why don't we get to the sort of guide to flirting and signals

29:23

and sort of dances you can do

29:26

David: That

29:26

Craig: these sorts of spaces.

29:28

David: So people talk a lot about consent and consent is very, very important

29:36

in any sort of sexual situation.

29:39

But one thing that it's important also to consider is by voluntarily

29:46

entering a sexual space, such as a gay sauna, you are already providing

29:53

a certain level of consent to.

29:56

be in a space that is sexual to receive flirtations and sort

30:03

of implicit requests for sex.

30:07

Those flirtations and requests can be in the form of touches to your body.

30:12

So in a purely social situation, such as, I don't know, a kink festival

30:18

or something like that, it's very important to always ask permission

30:23

before touching someone else.

30:24

Thanks.

30:25

In a space that is explicitly sexual, such as a sauna, especially the dark

30:30

room or the maze area of a sauna, that level of consent is already

30:35

implied simply by you virtue, simply by virtue of you already being there.

30:41

As a result, perfectly normal and expected to reach out and touch someone,

30:47

even in a way that is somewhat sexual.

30:50

However, that consent can also be revoked.

30:54

if someone touches you in a way that you don't like, you can, and

30:58

you should move their hand away.

31:02

If they continue to do so, you can, and you should verbally tell them to stop.

31:08

But by being in a space such as a sauna or a dark room, are giving a certain

31:15

amount of permission for those sorts of touches to happen that can be exciting,

31:20

that can be scary, that can be both.

31:22

But I think that is the first thing to keep in mind, that this sort of

31:26

thing can and will happen, and it's a part of the nature of flirting.

31:31

Craig: Yeah.

31:32

And I think it's worth saying for people who have never experienced this,

31:36

Often when people like do the physical initiation, it's still in a staged

31:41

way, for example, when you're in the hot tub a way most people approach

31:46

people is they will start by putting a hand on the outside of your thigh

31:50

David: Mm hmm.

31:51

Craig: and wait for you to either dismiss them or let them carry on.

31:55

David: Yes.

31:55

Craig: that, they will move their hand forward.

31:57

further up, like to the inside of your thigh.

32:01

And again, check to see if you are going to dismiss them by like

32:04

moving their hand away or turning to them and shaking your head.

32:08

And if you allow them to carry on, then they start touching your cock and balls or

32:12

whatever genitals you have in that area.

32:14

David: Yes.

32:15

Typically you have to specifically indicate that you

32:21

do not want things to continue.

32:22

Mm hmm.

32:23

If you do not specifically indicate that, that is usually taken as implicit consent

32:29

for things to continue or even escalate.

32:32

So if you are in a space where you are physically close to other people,

32:38

such as in a hot tub or something like that, might start with that

32:42

sort of touching right off the bat.

32:45

If you're in a space where people are moving around, such as wandering

32:49

through the dark room or the maze.

32:52

It typically starts with more visual cues, such as where you look.

32:58

The idea in a situation like a darkroom or a sauna is if you are looking at

33:05

somebody that indicates a level of interest, and that interest could be

33:11

sexual in nature, particularly if your gaze travels down to the genital area.

33:18

If you are at someone's eyes and then maybe looking at his cock and then

33:22

looking back up at his eyes again, that's a pretty clear indication that you are

33:26

interested in something sexual happening.

33:31

Correspondingly, you do not look at someone and just pass them by, that's a

33:36

pretty clear indication that you are not interested in anything sexual with them.

33:42

What were you saying?

33:44

Craig: I was just going to say, I've heard that maneuver with the eyes basically

33:46

referred to as the eye bounce where it's Eye contact to get their attention,

33:50

look at their genitals to see, show what you're after, and then back up to their

33:54

eyes to, like, continue the interaction.

33:57

David: Exactly.

33:58

it doesn't have to involve any words spoken at all.

34:01

It can literally just be eye contact.

34:05

So what this means, if you've never done this before, is when you're in a space

34:10

like this, aware that if you look too long or too intensely at someone, are

34:17

going to think that you are interested in them sexually, whether or not you are.

34:21

And you can clarify with them, of course.

34:23

You can just, you can say something like, Oh, I just thought

34:26

that was a really nice tattoo.

34:28

I'm not really interested in doing anything sexual right now.

34:31

But they're going to assume, most likely, that you have a sexual

34:35

intent if you look at them too long.

34:38

Correspondingly, if you see someone attractive, But you're in a hurry and

34:45

you're walking someplace else and you don't spend any time looking at them

34:49

That person is going to assume that you have no interest in them whatsoever

34:53

Craig: Yeah,

34:53

David: So sometimes even if in a hurry You can just do a little

34:58

touch on his shoulder or on his

35:00

Craig: mm hmm,

35:00

David: Maybe a wink or something like that to indicate yes, I am interested in

35:04

you, but I'll be back later So So there's

35:11

Craig: yeah,

35:12

David: and as I talked about earlier, physical touch is sort of

35:17

accepted and implied that it's going to happen in a space like this.

35:21

Craig: mm hmm

35:21

David: that can be touches on the shoulder, touches on the

35:23

back, touches on the side.

35:25

Typically you don't start with diving right into the genitals.

35:30

You start with a different, less intimate part of the body.

35:34

But again, if that touch is well received.

35:38

Then, depending on the person, you could end up very swiftly being fondled by the

35:43

Craig: yes,

35:44

David: in.

35:45

Craig: mm hmm,

35:47

David: And similarly, a space like a dark room or a sauna is a space

35:53

where who's there understands that sex can happen and sex does happen.

36:00

Which means you can be sexual, even in a space that is more public.

36:08

By virtue of the fact that everyone who has entered has paid a fee, has decided

36:13

to be a part of this sauna experience.

36:17

so if you want to do something that is a semi public, as I would call it,

36:22

if you want to do something sexual in an area that is typically non sexual,

36:26

such as that initial socializing area, then people might react with

36:31

some surprise to see that happening.

36:34

But it's usually not actually a problem.

36:38

I've been in a situation where I found a guy in the social area who was just

36:44

super hot and relaxing naked with a drink.

36:48

And I asked him if I could get on my knees and suck his cock.

36:51

And he said, yeah, sure.

36:52

Why not?

36:53

Craig: mm hmm,

36:54

David: so there were a group of guys just sort of chatting with each

36:56

other in this social lounge area.

36:58

And there I was on my knees, sucking the cock of this guy I didn't know,

37:02

and nobody had a problem with it.

37:03

Least of all me.

37:04

Craig: yeah, mm hmm,

37:07

David: So it's going to depend on the situation.

37:10

Obviously, if inform you that your activities are making them uncomfortable,

37:16

then you should move on to someplace that is more private, such as one of

37:20

these cabins, if they have any available.

37:22

Craig: yeah,

37:24

David: I don't think you should be too scared or too nervous about engaging with

37:27

someone sexually while other people can see, especially because a lot of guys go

37:33

to saunas and other sexual spaces because of this voyeur, voyeuristic idea that they

37:38

Craig: mm hmm.

37:39

David: seen while playing with other guys.

37:43

Craig: Oh yeah, you definitely get people in areas that are there not

37:46

to hook up one on one but to be seen.

37:50

And to be observed.

37:52

And you also get people looking for different things.

37:54

Like a lot of people like, like to make a connection first.

37:57

As we said, they flirt in the flirtation zones, like the sauna and the chill

38:02

out area, where they'll like do the contacts, eye contact, that sort of thing.

38:08

And often like strike up a conversation for a bit.

38:11

Say, Hi, my name's Joe.

38:13

I did this.

38:14

You're very beautiful.

38:15

What's your name?

38:17

Other times people will just.

38:18

Go there for the anonymous sex.

38:21

You can see these a lot of the time particularly people who are hanging

38:24

around the dark sections and the cabins.

38:28

Often you'll get people who, I think of them as fishing.

38:33

Where like, you have people if they're tops or looking for non anal

38:37

play, basically stroking themselves.

38:40

David: Yeah.

38:41

Craig: And basically that is an open invitation to people nearby.

38:46

And you also get the bottom equivalent of often people will be face

38:50

down, arse up, waiting in a cabin.

38:52

David: Yes.

38:54

It's the sort of universally recognized symbol of somebody come and fuck me.

38:59

I don't care who it is.

39:00

Craig: Yeah.

39:02

So it's all what you're into.

39:04

David: Yeah, And some people enjoy something that is more private.

39:11

So they might ask someone to go to a cabin with them so that they can play together

39:17

in a place where it's harder to be seen.

39:19

Some people enjoy something more public to, you know, get down

39:23

on his knees and suck someone right in front of everyone else.

39:26

It really depends on what you're into at that moment in time.

39:29

Craig: Yeah, and they're in between spaces, like we've talked about cabins

39:33

and dark rooms, sometimes there are cinema rooms where there will be a pawn playing.

39:38

And these are often quite small, so you're still technically in public,

39:43

but also it's a limited audience.

39:46

David: Well, I would say semi public

39:49

Craig: Hmm.

39:49

David: this is not

39:50

Craig: Hmm.

39:50

David: public space.

39:51

Everyone who's in the sauna is someone who has paid to be

39:54

Craig: Yeah.

39:55

David: So I would say it ranges from semi public to semi private

39:59

Craig: Mm hmm.

40:00

David: in some cases, fully private if you've paid for a cabin room that locks.

40:05

Craig: Yeah.

40:06

I would also like to go into certain behaviors you shouldn't do.

40:09

If someone has shown you no interest, please do not follow them around.

40:14

David: Yes.

40:15

Craig: I know it can be tempting, especially for people we find very

40:17

attractive, to think well maybe if I just hang around them a bit

40:19

longer, they will start to notice me.

40:22

Typically, if that's happened, they have noticed you and are not

40:26

interested, and I feel it's best to leave them alone, as it can feel very

40:29

uncomfortable being followed around.

40:33

David: Very true.

40:34

But I will counter by saying while you

40:38

Craig: hmm.

40:38

Mm hmm.

40:40

Mm hmm.

40:41

David: behavior, it's perfectly fine to, like, if you notice this

40:45

person come into the room where you are, perfectly fine to look at them

40:52

to see if they look at you back.

40:54

Because People change even over the course of a couple of minutes or a

40:59

couple of hours to decide who they're interested in and what they want to try.

41:04

Craig: Mm hmm.

41:05

David: don't be aggressive about your interest.

41:07

If someone's made it clear that they're not interested in

41:09

you, then don't go after them.

41:12

But you also don't have to shut them out either.

41:14

Maybe they'll decide later on that actually right now they are in the

41:19

mood for someone who looks like you, though they weren't 20 minutes ago.

41:24

So.

41:25

You can still be open to that possibility.

41:30

Craig: Certainly.

41:32

David: Anything else that you think is a bad idea in the sauna?

41:35

Craig: I mean, that was the big thing on my mind.

41:38

David: Yeah.

41:38

Craig: Yeah.

41:39

And just remember if there's ever confusion, ask for verbal confirmation.

41:44

David: Yeah.

41:45

Craig: Like, if you're, yeah, if you're not really able to read body signals

41:50

well, or you're a bit confused, just ask.

41:53

You are allowed to say, is this all right?

41:55

Or, I would like to play more with you.

41:57

Like, it's not a hard rule that everything has to be physical signals.

42:03

Like, verbal communication is still a big part of this.

42:06

No,

42:13

David: Messes happen.

42:15

It's an unfortunate part of life and of the body, but it's true.

42:20

Sometimes you want to play with someone and you want to engage in some anal sex,

42:26

and it's not as clean as you would hope, especially in an environment like a sauna

42:32

where people have to travel to get there.

42:36

Someone who's a bottom might have cleaned out at home, but maybe they don't have

42:41

the opportunity to try that again once they're actually in the sauna environment.

42:45

Some saunas offer that, others do not.

42:48

If you find yourself in this situation where things have gotten a bit

42:51

messy, Don't freak out about it.

42:54

It's, it's unfortunate, but it's a part of life.

42:57

And especially when you're in a sauna, which is all about cleaning

43:02

yourself and having showers available and it's okay to, you know, go to

43:08

the shower and clean yourself off.

43:09

And that can even be kind of fun.

43:12

I would say, yeah, just be aware that sometimes this happens.

43:16

If it's a really big mess, then you can notify one of the staff of

43:21

the sauna to say, Hey, this cabin that I was in maybe could use some

43:24

cleaning they will take care of it.

43:27

I guarantee you, this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened.

43:31

Craig: it's part of their job and like a lot of these saunas are

43:34

open 24 hours a day so they have to actively clean these places.

43:39

Like, you'll see them going around sometimes that certain hours with

43:43

the jet wash, cleaning things down.

43:45

David: Yes, incidentally a good way to tell who is a customer or a patron

43:51

of the sauna versus who works there is typically the patrons are naked

43:57

except for a towel and the people working there are wearing clothes.

44:02

Craig: Yes.

44:03

David: if you see someone walking through the sauna while fully clothed,

44:07

typically that means that they work for the sauna and they are there to pay.

44:12

Do some kind of maintenance or cleaning or something like that, is

44:15

another reason why they don't allow us patrons to just bypass the locker

44:20

room without taking off their clothes.

44:21

Like I did the

44:22

Craig: Yeah.

44:23

David: Yeah, I think that's all of the behavioral stuff that we need to talk

44:27

Craig: Yeah.

44:28

I mean, as always, if people have questions, you please feel free

44:31

to write in any social medias or our email is available to you.

44:36

We're happy to go back to these sorts of things and answer further questions.

44:40

David: Absolutely.

44:41

Craig: As a way to cap this off just to give a little fun thing, I wanted to go

44:47

over, what do we think makes a good sauna?

44:51

David: Well, there's a lot of different aspects of that.

44:54

Craig: Mm hmm.

44:54

David: And fundamentally, it comes down to something that you can't control,

44:58

which is the other patrons at the sauna.

45:01

Craig: Mm hmm.

45:02

Mm hmm.

45:03

David: whether you find people who you enjoy spending time with, either

45:07

socially or sexually, whether you don't.

45:10

But considering that there's not much that we can do to control

45:15

that factor, there's other factors available that we can look at as well.

45:18

Mm

45:20

Craig: I mean, there are things you can do to predict that.

45:23

There are certain times of day where certain people come through.

45:27

Like sauna's location.

45:30

Mm hmm.

45:30

Like for example, there's a great one in London called Pleasure Drome, which

45:35

is literally under one Waterloo station, which is one of the main terminals

45:39

in and out of London for commuters.

45:41

David: hmm.

45:42

Craig: And so, after, like, after 5pm, you get a lot of different

45:47

people all from the office jobs.

45:49

Going there.

45:50

And you get a lot of different body types.

45:52

Same with, I know, saunas.

45:55

There's one in central London, which tends to have a large variety of body

45:59

types and ethnicities compared to the others but also on the weekends

46:05

that weekend times tends to, everyone tends to be a bit, I don't want to, I

46:11

don't want to sound nasty around this, tends to be of a certain body type.

46:16

David: Okay, I think you might need to clarify a little bit

46:19

because I don't know what you mean.

46:21

Craig: Basically skinny, white, gay.

46:25

David: I

46:25

Craig: And, and I have had past experiences that weren't that great

46:30

when I came in when a crowd was particularly of that body type and

46:37

quite judgmental of people who were not.

46:40

David: yes.

46:40

Craig: then I have other, had other times when that has never been the case.

46:45

Mm-Hmm.

46:46

David: One of the things that I

46:48

Craig: Mm-Hmm.

46:49

David: really like about Sonos but can occasionally be a problem

46:52

Craig: Mm-Hmm.

46:53

David: is that saunas draw a very wide range of people and

46:57

Craig: Mm-Hmm.

46:58

David: backgrounds, different ethnicities, different ages,

47:02

different sexual preferences.

47:05

And it can be really nice to go to one of these events and find that there's

47:09

a lot of people there, including people that maybe you wouldn't normally

47:14

be attracted to, you can sometimes discover that actually this person is

47:19

is piquing my interest, even though I never would have expected to be

47:23

Craig: Mm hmm.

47:25

David: On the other hand, sometimes you go to a sauna and it's full of people who you

47:30

are absolutely not attracted to, or you go to a sauna and you find that there's a lot

47:35

of people that you're attracted to, but none of them seem to be attracted back,

47:40

Craig: Yeah.

47:40

David: is also frustrating.

47:42

Craig: Like, if you are worried about your body type I know a

47:47

lot of saunas do themed nights.

47:49

Like, there are bear nights, twink nights, and so forth, where they

47:54

generally go, If you are inter if you are of this body type, or

47:57

interested in this body type, this is a specific night you may want to try.

48:01

David: Absolutely.

48:02

Craig: Mm hmm.

48:04

David: if you are chronologically on the younger side, let's say between ages 18 to

48:09

25, you can almost always get some sort of a discount or incentive to go to gay sauna

48:17

you want any night of the week, because these saunas are always trying to attract

48:22

the younger demographic for two reasons.

48:25

Craig: Mm hmm.

48:25

David: One is because they are seen as conventionally more attractive.

48:30

to many of the people who go to these saunas.

48:34

And the other reason is they're trying to get people to get in

48:37

the habit of going to saunas.

48:39

So if they get them young, then they can, you know, get that habit

48:43

established and they know that they're going to have someone who's going

48:46

to come back again and again, paying money over the course of years.

48:50

Craig: Yeah.

48:51

David: if you are one of those younger people.

48:54

Then take a look around and ask the sauna if they provide a youth

48:58

discount or anything like that You might just get lucky and find that

49:03

Craig: Yeah, typically if you have ID that says you're under 25,

49:06

you can probably get a discount.

49:08

Like,

49:09

David: But

49:09

Craig: that has been my experience.

49:11

Yeah.

49:11

David: Yeah,

49:14

Craig: Okay, what else?

49:15

So,

49:17

David: in

49:17

A good sauna

49:19

Craig: Yeah, let's do it as what, what would our perfect sauna all have?

49:23

David: Okay.

49:24

Well, I think the number one thing for me is a really nice jacuzzi

49:32

Craig: Mm hmm.

49:32

David: someplace to sit down, chat with other people in the warm water with the

49:37

bubbles and letting the bubbles obscure my hands a bit as I drift over the thighs and

49:43

backsides of some guys sitting next to me.

49:46

Craig: Mm hmm.

49:47

A big jacuzzi.

49:49

And I would ask that they keep it relatively hot.

49:51

I know a lot of places saunas keep it at a cooler temperature than normal,

49:56

more lukewarm than actually hot, but I would prefer it properly hot.

50:00

David: Yeah.

50:01

Another thing that's nice is a space where they actually

50:04

have food and drink available.

50:06

Craig: Mm hmm.

50:06

David: about before, not just from vending machines, but actually people who

50:10

can mix drinks and prepare nice meals.

50:14

Because even when you're going to the sauna, mostly for sexual purposes, it's

50:19

nice to have a space to rest, relax, and recover in between your adventures.

50:24

And to have something to eat as well, to keep your strength up.

50:27

Yeah.

50:28

Craig: Yeah.

50:29

And, you know, very comfortable space, sofas, recliners, that sort

50:35

of space, like, good mood lighting.

50:38

David: Yes, I would say the lighting is

50:40

Craig: Mm hmm.

50:40

David: There are going to be

50:41

Craig: Mm hmm.

50:42

David: are more social, that are more brightly lit, and there

50:44

are spaces that are more sexual, that's going to be a little more

50:47

dim, so that it's more exciting

50:49

Craig: Mm hmm.

50:50

Yes.

50:50

David: say.

50:51

Craig: Yes.

50:52

Also, as amenities go, definitely providing facilities to help you

50:58

clean out while you are there.

51:00

David: Yes.

51:01

Craig: This can be like one time douches.

51:03

Some places have essentially one time, one use shower shots.

51:08

You plug in and in their toilet cubicles and clean out there.

51:13

David: Mm hmm.

51:13

Craig: These can be very handy.

51:14

As you've said, it, you know, you can clean out and then travel in and go,

51:18

Oh, my body's progressed since then.

51:20

David: Yes.

51:22

Craig: Yeah.

51:22

David: it's also nice if you, excuse me, It's also nice if you have a place

51:28

that has condoms and lube available.

51:30

Craig: Mm hmm.

51:31

David: You want to be able to grab something quickly and close by when

51:36

you're in a sexual situation with someone.

51:38

Most of the places that I've been have some kind of a lube dispenser and condom

51:43

receptacle in the actual cabins themselves so that you can just grab a squirt of lube

51:50

when you're going at it and if you want to grab a condom, they're also right there.

51:55

Craig: Yeah.

51:55

I mean, that is very handy.

51:58

David: It's

51:58

If one of these places has at least one room where there's some kind

52:02

of sexual equipment like a sling

52:05

Craig: Mm hmm.

52:05

David: surfaces to make it more comfortable to have sex

52:08

lying down, that sort of thing.

52:10

Craig: Yeah.

52:11

One, one thing Sauna used to have, which I really loved, was a mirror room, where

52:17

essentially you had a raised padded desk in the middle, and the room was

52:20

like an octagon covered in mirrors.

52:23

And it's like, if you're into that, that is very fun.

52:26

David: That's super cool.

52:28

Craig: And it presides a nice contrast to the rest of it which

52:30

was a dark room, or darkened rooms.

52:35

Like, to have this bright space where it's full of mirrors and just like

52:38

being very visual was really good.

52:43

David: I think maybe the theme overall of what we've been talking about

52:46

is different people have different preferences when it comes to what they

52:50

enjoy and the best sauna is going to be large so that they have lots of

52:55

spaces for lots of different options.

52:58

Yeah.

53:01

Craig: of the flow of spaces.

53:05

Like, I've been to some saunas where it's actually quite boxy with narrow

53:09

corridors and none of the rooms are arranged in a way that would naturally

53:15

draw you through them in a sequence.

53:17

So, like, often you would do, like, jacuzzi, shower, saunas, so forth.

53:24

This wasn't particularly well laid out and it ended up being very blocky, people kept

53:31

bumping into each other as they did the rounds, it didn't have a good flow to it.

53:37

So I think a nice, the sauna thinking about the layout to

53:41

have a flow is very important.

53:45

There's also like little tricks like, so my favorite sauna so far I've

53:51

been to has been the Amsterdam sauna.

53:53

And they have lots of little things, like one of my favorite things is the

53:59

dry sauna and the shower section share a wall and that is a one way mirror.

54:05

So when you're in the shower section, it's a mirror.

54:08

When you're sitting in the sauna on the benches, you are facing watching all

54:11

these people have showers without them.

54:14

I mean, quote unquote, without them knowing, like most people have

54:18

been there know what it is, but.

54:20

David: the way that's achieved is just through the use of light.

54:24

because it's a material that is reflective on the side that's well lit

54:28

and transparent on the side that is dim.

54:31

they have the showers that are well lit and they have the sauna, which is dim.

54:34

So it works out being kind of transparent from the sauna side.

54:39

It's

54:40

Craig: Yes, it is cool, and it shows a real thought into the way it's laid out.

54:45

And another thing I've seen at the Amsterdam Zone, which I've not seen

54:48

anywhere else, for the steam room and wet rooms, they have spectacle racks by the

54:54

door, so people can literally take off their glasses and leave them so they don't

54:59

get steamed up, and that's one of those things that's, it's such a small thing.

55:03

But it really shows a level of care and people who have to wear glasses around in

55:08

these environments really appreciate it.

55:11

David: Absolutely.

55:12

Yeah.

55:16

Craig: Yeah like we talked about like having specific nights so people know what

55:20

to expect and like can go for a specific body type that they're into or they are.

55:25

I would actually like to see the return of live entertainment maybe.

55:29

David: That could be fun.

55:30

Yeah.

55:31

Craig: Yeah.

55:32

David: as long as it's in a space where it doesn't bother the people who aren't

55:35

Craig: Mm hmm.

55:35

David: that, because there's always going to be people who go to the sauna because

55:38

they want to have sex and nothing but sex.

55:40

And that's

55:41

Craig: Yeah.

55:43

Exactly.

55:44

I'm struggling to think of anything else I've not covered.

55:46

Do you have any more wants for your perfect sauna?

55:50

David: I'm not really sure.

55:52

Yeah,

55:53

Craig: I have thought of one more.

55:55

David: tell me.

55:56

Craig: Non slip flooring.

55:58

David: Hmm.

55:59

Yes.

56:00

Craig: been to several saunas where, like, they basically go for, like, the

56:03

slate grey tiles, and it looks very nice, it fits the aesthetic, and it's very

56:09

professional, and I expect they have it because it's easy to clean and wipe down.

56:15

But when you're constantly walking around with damp and wet

56:17

feet, it gets a bit treacherous.

56:19

David: Yes.

56:20

Craig: I wish saunas would put down non slip flooring.

56:23

David: I think most of them try to do that, but.

56:27

not sure how well that survives over long periods of time with thousands of

56:31

people walking over them with wet feet.

56:34

So I'm not sure.

56:36

Craig: Yeah.

56:37

David: Another thing that's also really nice in Asana, I've seen

56:40

one or two places that offer this.

56:42

professional massage service

56:44

Craig: Mm hmm.

56:45

David: Typically, this is a paid add on, so it's not included in the

56:49

admission of the sauna, but they might have masseurs there who you can

56:54

book a time slot with them and they will give you a full body massage.

56:59

Now, despite everything that we've talked about during this podcast, you might be

57:03

surprised to find that these massages typically are purely professional.

57:08

They are not sexual.

57:10

there's two reasons for that in my experience.

57:12

One is because it's not sexual.

57:14

As soon as you start accepting money for sexual services, then

57:18

that is a very different category of business that you're talking about.

57:22

Sauna owners can make the argument that they're accepting payment for people

57:27

just to enter and have a relaxing time.

57:29

And if they have sex, then that's up to them.

57:31

That's up to the patrons.

57:32

Craig: Yeah.

57:33

David: they're not paying for sex.

57:34

They're paying for entrance to a location.

57:37

On the other hand, if they were accepting money for giving sexual

57:40

massages, then it becomes something more akin to prostitution.

57:43

So, for that reason, they don't do that.

57:46

And the second reason is, frankly, if you're looking for sex, there's

57:50

no lack of sex in a gay sauna.

57:52

So, it's actually kind of refreshing, in my opinion, to go someplace where you

57:57

can get a really nice massage and either have sex before or after, but that's not

58:03

what it's about during the experience.

58:06

Craig: Yeah, and I think it is worth reiterating, like, again, you

58:12

don't have to go to these places with the expectation of having sex.

58:16

If it happens, it's fine, but these are places which are just nice to

58:20

hang out in and use the amenities.

58:22

David: That's true.

58:26

Craig: Yeah.

58:27

The one, oh, there is one more topic we haven't covered, which is

58:31

a lot of people tend to use these spaces in lieu of a hotel at night.

58:36

David: Hmm.

58:37

Craig: So, particularly, I don't know about the transport situations in other

58:41

cities, but in London typically there's a gap between the last trains around

58:46

like 1am and the first trains around 6am.

58:50

So what a lot of people do instead of paying for a full hotel, they just

58:53

pay for a sauna visit and chill out.

58:56

Typically you will be moved on if you fall asleep in these places, so don't

59:00

do that, but they are a nice, warm, cosy space to stay on the weekend.

59:04

Between the final and first trains.

59:09

David: the owners of these facilities typically don't want people

59:12

to go there in order to sleep.

59:15

Craig: Yeah.

59:17

David: that takes up space that someone else might want to use

59:20

for a private sexual situation.

59:22

And also because it's expensive.

59:25

going back to different categories of business, a sauna and a hotel are two very

59:29

Craig: Mm hmm.

59:30

David: and they probably have to get different permits and different

59:34

sort of regulations to do that.

59:37

So for various different reasons,

59:39

Craig: Mm hmm.

59:39

David: typically will not allow you to go to a sauna late at night and there with

59:46

the intention of sleeping in one of these cabins and leaving the following morning.

59:50

If that is actually what you want to do, don't tell them

59:53

that you're going to do that.

59:55

Craig: Yeah.

59:55

Like,

59:56

David: out, they will probably try to prevent that.

59:58

Craig: yeah.

59:59

Like, if you're caught out and stuck in a city, and it's like, on the weekend,

1:00:04

late, like, late at night, it is a good, cosy, safe place to wait out your time.

1:00:11

David: Yes, that's true.

1:00:12

Just don't tell them that you're like planning to fall asleep,

1:00:18

Craig: No.

1:00:18

David: you do.

1:00:19

Craig: No.

1:00:22

Ah, so, I think this is everything.

1:00:25

David: I think so.

1:00:26

Craig: Yeah.

1:00:26

As previously stated, if you have any more questions about

1:00:29

this feel free to write in.

1:00:31

We have our email, kinkyboyspodcast at gmail.

1:00:35

com.

1:00:36

You can find us on any social under kinkyboyspod.

1:00:40

And, yeah, that's it from me.

1:00:43

David: And for me, I'm David.

1:00:45

I go by the username

1:00:46

Craig: Mm hmm.

1:00:47

David: online.

1:00:48

You can find me on the hypnoguys.

1:00:50

com Mastodon server.

1:00:52

You can also email me at harryhypnotist at gmail.

1:00:55

com.

1:00:55

Yes,

1:00:59

Craig: Like, I know you enjoy Saunas.

1:01:01

I've seen you in Saunas.

1:01:04

Very fun.

1:01:06

Yes.

1:01:07

David: it's, it's definitely a nice hobby for me.

1:01:09

And I like going to new places and trying the local gay sauna there.

1:01:14

Cause be a lot of fun.

1:01:17

Craig: Yeah.

1:01:19

So yes I hope you enjoyed.

1:01:21

And always, listeners, play safe.