89: Clown Fetish

Craig: Come one, come all to the kinky boy's circus experience.

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boys who are listed in the show notes.

Now on with the interview.

Hello and welcome again to the kinky boys podcast and as you can see we're

quite festive because today's episode is on clown fetish and of course we have

Barney: Oh,

Craig: Yeah, I know.

Barney: thing.

Sorry, I was gonna, I was gonna talk about like PVC, but I guess we can

Craig: Sorry, I brought you here under false circumstances, but yes today

we have Muckle Stoter aka Barney.

Hi, welcome.

Barney: Hello.

Thank you for having me.

Craig: Yes.

So for those of who can see the webcam feed, you are in

full clown, which is amazing.

Barney: Thank you.

Craig: got the bean

Barney: to the effort of doing like, got my, my leather clown shorts.

I've got my massive.

Craig: Mm hmm.

Barney: leather clown shoes.

We're, we're, we're doing it.

We're doing this.

I'm not I don't half, I take my clowning very seriously.

Okay.

Craig: Yeah.

See, my mind's really half arsed.

I've got the classic strongman singlet and I tried to do my mustache

like the big curled up thing and I just couldn't get it to stick.

So I'm like, fuck it.

The singlet will be enough.

Barney: The effort put in is just,

Craig: Yeah.

Yeah.

Barney: not good enough.

Craig: I'm just terrible.

Barney: podcast to deride you.

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: I've even actually, cause the nose that I'm wearing is rubber.

So I've actually Vivershined it, which I think

Craig: Oh, wow.

Barney: yeah,

Craig: No, you can really see the shine on that thing.

Barney: Yeah.

Craig: Listeners.

So why don't we get on and say are and what you do?

Barney: so my name is Barney, I also go by the Mucklesota.

I kind of chose the most convoluted name I possibly could, because

I wanted a catch all for all my various different things, right?

So, I'm a clown kinkster, have a clown name that I came up with when I was

like 18, so I'm Dunbun the Clown.

But I started doing fetish art, and as people were commissioning me, I was like,

Okay, well, I better have an identity that sort of groups together all my

different various fetish identities.

And I was like, okay, well, I want it to kind of have the initials.

So, you know, it's, it can be all under, all my art stuff can be under like my, you

know, my legal name and blah, blah, blah.

And then Barney is the name I use when I'm, you know, in kink.

And then all the other stuff can come under that.

And so I came up with the Muckle Stoto, which is a really like niche reference.

Yeah.

involving a Scottish jester, which nobody gets and nobody's really meant to, but

yeah, every time I give my handle out, I'm just like, I could have picked anything.

This is what I picked.

But yeah, I've been in the scene for a few years now.

And prior to that, I just knew from day dot that I was a weird clown fucker.

And it took a long time to get Come around to accepting that.

But yeah, now I'm here.

and I host a podcast about all the wonderful roads to self acceptance

we take because I thought I was the weirdest person in the world

and turns out, well, there's you.

So, I

Craig: so that's under the big top.

And yes, I too am one of those massive weirdos who loves to talk about it.

Barney: mean, I love to talk.

I also love to dress up as it and Yeah, and I guess sometimes

traumatize people, which people seem to keep me to do, which sure.

Craig: Yeah, that's interesting.

And I think we're going to get into that in a bit.

Barney: Yeah.

Craig: So let's start at the beginning.

A very good place to start.

What.

Let's go through the basics.

For someone who's completely new, what is a clown fetish?

Barney: So a clown fetish is when you hate clowns.

You don't want anything to do with them, and you don't have sex with them.

Craig: Easy.

Understood.

Podcast over.

Barney: I mean, it's like, I guess any kink, like it's it's different

for everyone and what I love about it.

I mean, there's lots of different things I love about it and, you know, there's lots

of different theories that I have about like how this kind of happened for me.

But everybody treats it differently.

There are a lot of people for whom there is something that's very I guess

exhilarating about something that weirds them out, or that they're uncomfortable

around, or that, you know, they're not sure about, or they're afraid of.

For a lot of people, it's more like the humiliation aspect.

I look silly, and I can't hide it.

Like, I'm ridiculous, and I'm dressed as a thing designed to be laughed at.

So, everyone's gonna laugh at me.

and I kind of treat it like this is my puphood.

This is my This is the expression of my kind of true self.

was kind of Like a shy kid.

I was equal parts very sort of precocious and and and chatty, but also really

insecure really like What's the words like I didn't have a lot of self confidence and

I was very self conscious And so I wanted to be like, you know the class clown.

I wanted to be and liked, and I didn't really know how to do that.

And so I think There's an element of that where the bravery of

someone dressing up as a clown was really, really enticing to me.

so there's a lot of different things.

I mean, what I love about kink is that we can all kind of find

our way into each other's kinks.

and so, My way in is just silliness.

It's just fun.

I figure sex is silly anyway.

We're putting weird things in funny places.

not dress as a clown and have fun with it?

Because I mean, like, only thing that, that really, really takes me out of Any

kind of sexual activity is seriousness, because I can't take that seriously.

I'm like, this is, this is silly.

And if you are really in your head or your own head and you're trying to

take it seriously, what are we doing?

Craig: Yeah.

And it's like we all, as you say, we all find our own paths.

And for some people, it is like being the serious and really getting into

that headspace and embodying the moment.

And for others, it's this big freeing thing of you basically

get to play as an adult.

It's playing dress up, playing cops and robbers, playing tie up.

You get to have fun as an adult, which we, yeah,

Barney: Totally.

I mean, I also find that like, That we use the word play for a reason.

You know, there is so much, I mean, there's so many different things there.

There are people who actually know what they're talking about, who could

tell you all the sort of you know neurological theories about fetish

and fetish as a trauma response or fetish as a healing tool or you know,

fetish as just part of the sexual diversity of, of humanity, whatever.

find that there is something so necessary in me about like.

Playing and I think so much of adult society around the world is geared

towards like well child time is over and actually we still All have the

need to have fun and be silly and

Craig: yeah.

Barney: and be immature in some way And so I love kinks that incorporate something

like that where you can just be A buffoon.

Or you can be you know, a pup.

You can dress up.

You can, you know, do whatever you want.

Be creative.

the way, are my, are my PVC gloves giving, like, ASMR?

Or is it just ruining the audio?

Craig: It's very subtle, so if you hold them closer to the microphone and do it,

Barney: Hello, ASMR.

Craig: It's not coming through my end.

Barney: Oh, okay, well then it's just me.

Craig: We're going to push this pie into your face And then we're

going to cover you in whitewash, And spank you with an oversized paddle.

Heh

Barney: See, the thing is, this one, I have to mend it.

It's actually a bit broken.

It should be louder.

I've also got a little squeaky.

I just feel like if you're not making those noises during sex, like, you

know, like, where's the fun part?

Craig: Yeah, just the sort of squeak, honk, honk, honk,

macaroni noise, honk, honk, honk.

Barney: Well, I don't know, okay, like, I, I don't know what is, is, is

right or wrong with my brain, but like, Whatever this says about my sexuality,

I don't really care, but I, I just, is interesting to me about bodies,

genitalia, sex acts just, the physical presence of a person is, is not.

what stimulates me.

And so I'm like, yeah, I want all these bits of stimulation.

I want like visuals.

I want like verbal communication.

I think it's also why a lot of people like music when they play.

I cannot stand it.

And I used to kind of rant about it and be like, I just don't get it.

How can people do this?

And actually what I think it is, is that I've had my ADHD diagnosis.

I just can't have distraction.

It's like, have the TV on.

and play.

That just can't happen.

I can't have music because then I'm listening to the lyrics and I'm

like, Oh, Beyonce's in the room.

You know,

Craig: Oh,

Barney: that's not

Craig: yeah, this is something that we as ADHD people really face, which is

staying in the mood and staying in the headspace is actually really fragile.

Like,

Barney: all it takes is like one thing.

And I'm, you know,

Craig: Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's, oh, that's me out.

That's me out.

Oh,

Barney: this, this is the level of visual that is required to keep me like hard

Craig: I get that.

I totally get that.

Right.

So, yeah.

So like, what about, I mean, we've kind of covered it.

What about the visuals really appeals to you?

Like is there a certain type of clowning?

Is there sort of things you like to do?

Barney: for sure.

Like, I mean, I think for me, a big part of my sexual development

was to understand this thing that I found really strange and didn't get.

so You know, I have a very specific idea of what I like as a clown, but

clowning as an art is just something that has existed throughout human history.

There has always been the need for this kind of like joker,

jester, trickster character.

And so every culture, every time period has its own version of the clown.

And so, which is also kind of cool, actually, as a kink, I mean, rule 34, you

know, if you can think of it, people are

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: like, it is cool to have a kink that is.

form and has a history because it means that there's a lot to play with.

When I started kind of getting into the more artistic side of things, I

was like, Oh, I can bring in all this weird stuff that people were doing and,

Craig: Mm-Hmm?

Barney: out of and just make it art, but in the bedroom.

And the, the classic idea of kind of a Western clown is, is largely American,

but, that's the, big red nose, big shoes.

Colorful face, baggy clothing, the idea is sort of like this an element

of old school kind of jester elements with, with kind of ruffles and

things but apart from that it's just stupid basically, or looking drunk.

I think that's the prevailing theory of where the red nose comes from, but you

know, they call it the world's smallest mask because the idea is that, you

know, you can still emote and, you know,

Craig: Yeah.

Mm-Hmm.

Barney: and that's where the exaggeration of the makeup comes from.

Actually there is a whole thing to the makeup which we can get into later but

for me really like the sort of Ringling Brothers style like the modern early

2000s Ringling Brothers style clown where they essentially what they did was they

there are three main types of clown.

There's white face What we call a goose clown and then character clown and then

the hobo tramp has kind of become its own thing But that was part of character.

So character is kind of like the fireman clown, you know

The whatever that character

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: that sums up anything else and it's normally playing off archetypes

and stereotypes then the white face is classic completely white face And

they are normally the smart clown.

So they are normally the one who's like Doing all the tricks and, you

know, they are never the butt of the joke, really, traditionally.

Craig: Oh

Barney: clown is like the stupid one.

this is an Auguste kind of style of makeup, like white eyes,

white muzzle, reds, cheeks.

The idea is you look sort of foolish, flushed, innocent, you

know, dopey, stupid, whatever.

And that was normally the one that takes the pratfalls, takes the pies, whatever.

But this kind of became very, very popular and I've done whiteface before

and I just don't like how it looks on me.

But Yeah, so I love that kind of classic circus look, but mine is more inspired,

as I said, by Ringling Brothers, where they kind of tried to modernize and it

was kind of like ruffles, but then with like casual clothes, you know, it was

like a giant hat and like, you know, but it's still a cap or the shoes,

you know, I can't really bend in these

Craig: yeah.

So.

Barney: converse, right?

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: They're huge, but they're converse, so the whole thing was, you look

like a person, because what they really tried to do was make clowns less scary.

And so they did this thing where anyone with a ticket could come to the show

an hour before and meet the clowns.

And it was kind of a way of like, you go backstage, you try on the costumes, you

see that these clowns, People are people, and most of them didn't use clown names

did very minimal makeup, used this kind of Oguz style, and had their costumes

designed to kind of just look like cool clothes, so that for me is like, super

super hot, like, it almost looks like This was a normal person who then became a

clown, like, they got turned into a clown.

And

Craig: Yes.

Barney: really hard.

Like, the remnants of who they were before is, is there.

Craig: Yeah.

It's like they, yeah, they've taken this ordinary person

and they've made them absurd.

Like.

Barney: him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Craig: I find that like, TF, Hypno, you know, it's also my bag.

So yeah, this I totally get

Barney: yep, yep, yep, yep.

Craig: and it is that sort of also forcing people into being ridiculous.

And again, it goes back to that again, both freeing and

humiliating in equal measure.

And it's,

Barney: Yeah, it, you know, it's kind of like armor.

It's, it's The sensation that people describe when they put on a pup hood.

You get to You get to do anything and say anything because you're the clown, like,

you know, nobody is really going to You can't get mad at the clown, that's the

clown's job, and the more that people kind of get annoyed by the clown, the more

the clown is kind of getting under their skin, and then the more people find that

funny, and then You know, the clown can of course get his comeuppance, you can

throw things at the clown, you can throw a pie at the clown, you can watch the clown

get tripped up, you know, whatever it is.

For me, I think I sexualized all of those main bits of imagery really early

on, so the nose is the most important thing for me, if you're not wearing a

red I'm like, not that into it I also really love big shoes, big hands, I

have like big Mickey Mouse hands and I like funny, like, goofy proportions, so,

anything that's like padded, you know, so like a, a big belly, or a big butt,

or anything that jiggles or squeaks or honks, or anything like that is all fine.

All fair game.

Anything that's like comically sized and colourful and stupid, I'm like, ugh.

Craig: that is really cool.

So it's, Yeah, like, my own experience with the clown was basically years

ago back when I was doing my GCSEs, which, oh god, that dates me we did

the clown plays, I think they're from the Commedia dell'arte,

Barney: Huh,

Craig: and I actually played the white face, and that's very interesting because

the whole point is the white face is like the straight man in those plays,

Barney: Yes,

Craig: but like, He's ultimately always the bust of the joke because

the ridiculous of the other clowns that he's trying to control overwhelms him.

Barney: totally.

I mean, the great thing about Clown is you can't go wrong.

Craig: Mm hmm.

Barney: rule can be broken.

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: point is that, you know, there's It's the root of Carnival.

It's the root

Craig: Mm hmm.

Barney: Topsy turvy, the fool is a king.

The whole premise of Clowning is that there are no rules.

And so when people really hard to emulate a particular type of clown

and they feel like they are failing.

If you're failing, you are clowning.

So, you know, it's like, I've had times where I'm like, my makeup did

not turn out how I wanted it to look.

It looks really bad.

And it's like, wait, great.

That's the point that, you know, it's like, the more stupid I look, the better.

So that is also why I kind of like it in a, in a sexual context,

because I just think, If you can let all those guards down and you

can be like, Ah, it is what it is.

doesn't have to be perfect.

It's rarely ever going to be perfect.

And the times that it is, are the times where you just allowed it to happen.

like when you try to plan a scene, in my experience, you end up disappointed.

Because if you overplan and you say, We want to do this and this and this

and this, in the moment that just might not be where you actually want to go.

And it might be more exciting to, you know, what happens between

you and your play partner.

So I kind of like the way that the clown really helps to just sap

the seriousness out of the room.

And

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: I mean, I thought I was the weirdest person in the world, like

for real, the clown is a hit, like at, at events, people really want to make

out with the clown and fuck the clown.

Craig: Oh, yeah.

It

Barney: And there's an element of

Craig: has a magnetism to it.

And it's.

Mm

Barney: eye catching.

It's

Craig: hmm.

Barney: But then also I think it's like, there's no pressure.

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: oh, I need to look really like buff and straight.

It's like, well, I'm just as a clown.

So

Craig: Yeah.

So whatever.

And it is that embracing, embracing almost like the possibility of

failure is incredibly freeing.

And it's, yeah, and, and it's.

Barney: don't fail.

Craig: Yeah, and there's, sorry, this is me being like a folklore nerd,

like, there was an era of clowns, I think back in Italy, who were, because

we think of, like, in pop culture, we think of clowns as fairly sexless.

There was an era of clowns back in Italy, back in like the 1700s, 1800s, where the

whole point is they were very lascivious and libido driven compared to, you know,

polite, you know, buttoned down society.

And the whole point was the clown would basically ooze sex appeal.

Barney: Yeah.

I mean the funny thing is clowns have been in every sector.

So we have a modern idea of these clowns as Like a clown is quite sexless

and that all comes from the idea of a clown as a family entertainer, so

that's like Circuses and birthdays the idea that a birthday clown, which

I don't really know really how Like what direction that business is going.

I don't know why that became a staple it kind of became like I don't know a

joke like people are like you have a birthday clown, but Yeah, I mean the

idea of a family entertainer, I think is really what what sanitized the idea

of clown whereas clowns at their core have always been subversive and so

being kind of lascivious and Grotesque.

I mean there's there's a clown called Red Bastard whose whole act He doesn't

look like when you say a clown I mean he's clowning but it's not what you

think it's it's like bouffant French clowning, but he wears a red Lycra

suit, head to toe, and he has white face but like really kind of nasty looking

makeup, and his body is just this mass.

It's just this padded Squishy mass and he basically just roasts and rips into the

audience and gets up in your face and gets really kind of gross and creepy and He's

sort of like the anti clown as kind of You know a response to this idea of the

sanitized clown and I love that I mean, it's why horror clowns are totally valid.

It's it's Nothing about that to me is sexual but for a lot of people it is.

The idea of like Pennywise, or Art the Clown from like, Terrify, or, you know,

just, The idea of like the monstrous clown has also become such a pop culture icon

that like, Obviously there are people who are going to sexualize that, obviously

there are people who are going to you know enjoy that in maybe more of a therapeutic

kind of way But like there is there is a clown for everything so Clown can't really

be nailed down and defined because as soon as you do that somebody else is going

to be like well I'm this type of clown

Craig: Yeah, it's chaos, essentially.

I do find it very interesting talking about horror clowns because

obviously there's been history of like several elements in the

70s kind of sort of cemented the idea of clown as a horror figure.

And obviously there's chlorophobia and one of the interesting things talking to a lot

of people with the clown fetish they said as a child they had chlorophobia and were

intensely afraid of clowns and over like years as they matured and gained a libido

that flipped into a sexual fascination.

Barney: I think i'm in that camp because My earliest memories are being not

necessarily like afraid but like I was embarrassed By like they kind of made me

uncomfortable because I was Scared that they would do something to embarrass me.

I didn't want to be like up on stage.

I didn't want to I didn't understand what they would do.

I didn't just I just didn't get it I was I was really weirded out by this like

I don't know.

I guess the courage to be silly and that I just

Craig: Hmm.

Barney: have and so Costume characters in general just made me quite uncomfortable.

I didn't want to go and like take pictures with them That was just like as a kid.

I wanted to avoid them at all costs

But that that very quickly You changed because I think it just became a

fixation that just became a fascination.

So,

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: But I, yeah, I think I'm kind of in that camp where the

Craig: Yeah.

And

Barney: phobia, the

Craig: like you,

Barney: phobia.

Craig: talking about that, I can kind of picture it where like talking about how

like he was afraid that they'll drag you off on stage and put you in this position.

Yeah, they kind of have like a power over you in that circumstance.

They could pick any member of the audience and drag them up and like bring them

down to quote unquote their level or

Barney: totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's also like when you know, kids cartoons kind of often

employ the clown as not necessarily malevolent, but like kind of the

villain of the week in a silly way.

And.

know, there were a lot of TV shows that creeped me out because they portrayed

clowns as just like these completely chaotic beings who would do anything

and Ultimately the clown is very powerful because the clown basically

invites you to be a clown The clown is basically like this is what you can

be you can be you can break all the rules You can be as silly as you want.

is Nothing stopping you from just there like, you know, you can you

Craig: yeah,

Barney: you can wear a red nose, too you know, it just There is something

about it that, like, I think is quite naturally, confronts you

because you're forced to go Oh shit.

Yeah, that could be me that that is just like a human person doing something kind

of and also like historically clowns had the power to you know, ridicule

and mock and ridicule and mock royalty and if it's funny, you can get away

with it, which also I think is a huge, huge, huge thing in the power of clown.

That's like, if you can make people laugh, you can get away with a lot.

And so you can kind of like go right up close to the line.

It's why like, you know let's say you do go to a circus and you're

a dad and whatever, and you get pulled up on stage, you can endure

whatever happens, even if it's very humiliating for you, because ultimately.

You're like, Oh, okay.

That was pretty funny.

You know, that was

Craig: yeah,

Barney: It's like, Oh, they loved it.

Great.

Whatever.

You know, so you get to do things that normally in day to day

life, you're just not able to do.

Craig: yeah.

So if we could draw it to sort of back to play.

From what I understand, one of the things you like to do is, as part

of a play scene, clown someone up.

Like literally as the scene goes on.

Turn them into a cloud.

Barney: totally.

Craig: you talk us through that?

Barney: Yeah, I've kind of, I've kind of like nailed it.

I've kind of boiled it down to a science because I love the transformation,

you know, a lot of my fantasies have to do with control being taken away.

I really like, you know, I want to be sort of taken away by the clowns and

pinned down and and laughed at and You know, let them do weird things

to me or, you know, struggle as they, you know, do weird things to me and

ultimately turn me into a clown.

And yeah, bring me down to that level, make me one of them.

no, I'm a clown

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: And there's clowning, I also think because, I mean you could say

this is probably about every kink, but I think because clowning is so

intrinsic to the human experience It really relates to every fucking kink.

I mean, I've got my, you know, part of my leather clown outfit on now

I've got a rubber clown outfit.

It's very easy to make it You know, match the theme, but then, you know, when we

talk about things like pup play and the headspace that you go into, I find it's

very, very similar, or practically, you know, I'm just doing what the

pups are doing, but with a red nose.

Nose on, brain off, that kind of thing.

Same with like ABDL, that kind of loss of control, or, you know, the dressing

up in something embarrassing and silly and colorful, any kind of humiliation,

I mean, gunge, wet and messy play, food play, pies, comes into all of that.

There's so many different facets that I think bleed into all these other kinks.

I mean, also hypnosis has like such a fantastic, you know circus connection.

So when I play with people, I, I really like to play with

all these different things.

And so whatever they like, I go, okay, great, cool.

I've got a clown version of that.

And.

It's really interesting to watch, you know, cause if they wanted to do

the clown thing itself, I, I have my way of, of kind of introducing that.

But if there's something else that they really wanted to do alongside

it, it's really easy to incorporate.

Otherwise, I like to lay the costume out.

In front of them, and I'm like, this is everything you're gonna wear.

This is your new life, clown.

You know, I'm gonna lock you in the, in the suit.

Sometimes I do people are into being like, locked.

I have padlocks and straps and

Craig: Oh, cool.

Barney: like, oh, yeah Yeah, I can zip that suit up and lock you

in and that suits not coming off.

Those gloves aren't coming off.

The shoes aren't coming off.

I set the makeup.

And also there is something very, very sexual at first, doing makeup

is kind of like time consuming.

And so I would just be like, this is the really sexy part.

And we just chat while it's happening.

But now there is something really kind of tantric to it.

Like there is this connection and, you know, I'll tell them to close their

eyes and listen to my voice and feel the grease pain as I'm applying it.

And when I let them see themselves in the mirror, they're not going

to recognize themselves and you know, all this kind of thing.

And.

It's funny, you don't even need really a lot can do hypnosis if you want, but

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: in the mirror, they just become, like, it just changes you, you

just feel silly, and you know, I have glue that I can glue the nose on, so

it's not coming off for a good while.

and that's normally enough to really turn someone on because it's so, if it's just

because it's so like off the wall and left field and weird, it's kind of like, we're,

doing this thing, I'm becoming a clown now, anyone You know, if I went outside,

anyone see me that, you know, I would look so silly and like who else is doing this?

This isn't the kind of thing that I would normally expect to be doing.

Oh my god, what am I doing here?

And then they see themselves and they're like, oh my god, I moved my face and

that's me, but it doesn't look like me.

And you know, so many different, like, fun little ways to get into Clown,

but it's very, very hard to see the transformation from start to finish.

Craig: Oh,

Barney: we're Clowns, we can do anything.

Like, if you wanna fuck, then I'm down.

Because now we're Clowns and so it's silly, I can honk my

horn and make stupid puns.

Craig: so you're down to clown?

Barney: hey!

Yeah, literally.

I mean, like, I love when, genuinely I love when people are down to clown and

like, I'm not gonna, like, reveal who and isn't, but a shocking number of people,

like, I really thought that I was just gonna be kind of a bit of an oddball

in the kink community, and it wasn't I made a recon account, that was like my

first sort of step in, and I was just inundated with messages, and I was like,

Okay, so for like a decade, I've been talking to, The same handful of people

across the world that are into this.

And all of a sudden being open about it, people are like, Oh, I want to try that.

Or like, Oh, I've secretly always been into that.

Or, you know, it amazes me that if I go out and clown to an event, which

now I, now I will just do, I used to be really self conscious and,

doing it at events was one thing and then doing it, you know, walking to

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: face of makeup was another thing now I don't care whatsoever.

It's totally fine.

You know, it's.

it is like wearing a pop hood, but I guess it also has an added layer

of, well, I just look like I'm doing any other kind of clown gig.

People can laugh.

It's totally fine.

It's whatever.

I either get like a good reaction or you know, a funny reaction.

I can also feel the people avoiding me who don't want to come near me.

And that's totally fine because kinksters, the first thing we learn

is if it's not for you, look away.

Like I am not going to go and like, bother people who don't want to be bothered.

So one needs to be worried that, you know, A clown kinkster is going

to come chase you around a venue.

That's not going to happen.

They're going to stay over there because they already feel like,

you know, all eyes are on them.

They're very, very aware of all of that stuff.

But if, and when I can, I like to talk to the people who are afraid of clowns

because within five minutes, they will often say, you know, I really don't

like clowns, but for some reason, I'm, I'm totally not afraid of you.

And I'll be like, well, that's just because we're talking and

you realize that I'm a person.

And if I can, I will.

Take my nose off if it's not glued on, or You know, if I arrive and I haven't

done my makeup yet, and they know I'm gonna be in Clown, I'll be like, do you

wanna, like, actually watch me get ready?

You can just leave at any time if it weirds you out, but we can

just have a conversation, because seeing the transformation also

to kind of neutralize that fear.

And then there are other people who are like, okay, Clown's

kind of weirded me out, but that is exciting, and that is hot,

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: But yeah, the number of times where up going home with or playing

with someone or meeting up with someone afterwards because the first thing

they did was was see me at an event and were like, I've got to try that.

It's really, it's, it's amazing, but it's also like, wow, I could

have just been doing this the whole time and not worrying about it.

And all the people who you know, like me, honestly can do the same.

So, I'm trying to get a clown event going, because there's just enough people.

And, it's slow going, just trying to, you know, get the dates locked in.

But, the more I bother the venue hopefully we'll get a date.

They get very booked up pretty quickly, and so, whatever, it's a new event.

But yeah, I think that would be really cool, if and when it happens.

Craig: Yeah, I'll be, I'll be down to go.

It sounds awesome.

And it is that thing of, if you live yourself authentically and broadcast

your passions, including sexual ones, authentically, people are drawn to that.

Like, just that energy intrigues people and they go, Oh my God,

I can feel the excitement.

I can feel the fun.

I can feel like whatever.

And it's like, I want to be a part of that.

That's a very real thing.

Barney: Totally.

And also, listen, pup play is only as popular as it is because one

puppy was like Hey, I'm a pup!

And I like to dress as a pup.

And, oh, let's start making pup hoods.

Oh, and now, you know, it just,

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: it's, there is a real what's the word?

There's a better word than social, but there's a social element to kink that

know, I kind of have this theory that we as kinksters have this thing on our

brain that just makes us able to, I cannot click in these, that's frustrating,

click with these PVC gloves on that makes us, you know, just able to sexualize.

Unusual things.

And so it's really interesting how we all kind of gravitate

towards what we're exposed to.

And if what you're exposed to is like old guard Leatherman.

will end up really liking that and really being into it because you have

positive experiences with it And it's why these things are so popular if

you grew up like hoarding magazines you know Tom of Finland are in secret.

Of course, that's going to be the kind of that you're drawn to and so I

think it's it's funny realizing that that actually There is an opportunity

to and there is the power to you know Make the thing that you're into.

If the thing that you're into is off the wall and no one

else is doing it, just do it.

Just be the poster child for it.

Because inevitably there will be tons of people who are already into it.

You're not that special, but also there will be people who are

like, Oh shit, I could do that.

Yeah.

I mean, that seems cool.

Like I want, can I, where can I get that gear?

And you know, it just kind of becomes thing.

Craig: Yeah, totally.

It's like, I've seen so that happens so many times that people finally come

out about this kink they've had and it just lights up the people around them

and going, Oh, I need to try that.

Barney: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally.

I mean, that's how I ended up being.

Into basically everything.

I've got like two things at the minute that, that are a no go, and

I just know that neither of them is gonna very long because neither

of them were like hard limits.

I busted through all my hard limits because I made friends and they

were into those things and I was like, we could make this fun for me.

And all the things that I was like really afraid of or really grossed

out by are now just like, yeah.

So kink is amazing.

I like, I

Craig: Yeah, yeah.

Barney: I thought that this was it for me and It wasn't until I got

spanked at my first event that I was like, I can have other kinks?

Wow, my brain just, it was like, I

Craig: You can have all the kinks.

Barney: I can have all the kinks, I can collect them, like, you know, Pokemon,

but, I, I guess I just bifurcated my life, and I was like, suppress the clown, and

all it meant was the clown was there, like, ready, I'm waiting, let me out,

and as soon as I did, and I accepted the clown, I was like, Oh, what about that?

Oh, what about that?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, and then I just was like, oh cool.

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: other things.

It's just like trying to reject a part of yourself is never going to open the

door to finding those other things.

If you can't accept the one weird thing, you're not going to be able to

find your way into the other things.

You can sit around and wish that you were into something quote

unquote more normal, like I did, but it's just not going to happen.

And so will just end up, you know, You know, being miserable and

living your life not for yourself.

And guess what, you've only got one go at this thing, so You may as well just

be the weird clown that you want to be.

Craig: Yeah.

That is great advice.

Barney: I'm a wise clown.

Craig: You are.

So we have listener questions from our Patreon server.

Mind if I fire a few at you?

Barney: Yeah, dope, hit me.

Craig: So, first one we have.

Barney: hit me, but Hot.

Craig: Oh, I could slap you.

Oversized mallet.

Giant.

Barney: was so quick, so quick to make it hot for me.

Ha ha ha ha!

Yeah, okay, go.

Craig: So, yeah, Ophis has asked, Do clown fetish folks do the egg

thing or is it still just dress up?

Barney: Oh, I know what he's talking about.

Do you know what he's talking about?

Craig: So this is the clown gallery in, in the Trinity Church?

Barney: Yes, Professional clowns.

I mean, I don't know how many clowns really do this anymore, but professional

clowns You can there's supposed to be this whole kind of thing about your makeup

is supposed to be unique and nobody else is supposed to Do your clown face blah

blah blah blah blah and there are some

Craig: Clown old guard, got it.

Barney: mean literally clown all God I mean there's a great guy

on Instagram called Support Clown who calls them Cigar Clowns.

And I do want to talk about him before we end.

But Yeah, so the idea is that you basically draw your, clown makeup

on an egg, that egg is kept in this gallery, and then that is like your

patenting your face, basically.

It's really silly, cause clowns I mean, I guess there's no reason

the clown kinkster couldn't do it.

Actually, I happen to know that there are clown kinksters who have

done it, because and behold, there are a lot of professional clowns

who are also clown kinksters.

And so once I was messaged by a few of them, I was like, so cool.

And so, yes, there are, there are clowns who have done that.

It's not something I think, I think you have to have some kind

of, I don't know, credential or

Craig: Yeah,

Barney: I don't know what you need to prove that you

are a clown, but know, I, I,

Craig: the governmental department of clown license.

Barney: okay, do you know what?

I'm going to talk about support clown now.

Cause you've just, you've

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: I mean, I'm not gonna do it also because I, I

change my makeup all the time.

So but support Clown on Instagram.

Cool, cool, dude.

He's a clown and he basically started doing this charitable endeavor, which

all stemmed from, you know, he calls them cigar clowns and he was just

kind of like, nobody owns clown.

Nobody owns clowning and his whole thing is his, his company's called Clown Care

and it's, it's all I think kind of more towards the, the therapeutic benefits of

clowning, and He decided to do this silly little thing where absolutely anyone,

because anyone can be a clown, can get a real clown License and so this is mine.

I

Craig: Oh, wow.

So for the listeners, he's holding up a literal clown

license up, up to the camera.

Barney: Literal, I mean, I don't know why the camera is not, come on.

It's not catching it.

It's not focusing.

But anyway, that's my clown license It's got my clown name on it And

yeah, he's a cool, cool dude.

He I, I, you know, message being like, I would love to get a clown license.

And he was like, yeah, sure.

And I was like, well, you know, I'm a kinky clown.

Is that okay?

And he was like, kinky clowns are totally valid too.

Like, Nobody owns clowns.

So that was really cool.

And one of the coolest parts of it is on the back I've got this

funky little barcode so that I can stop having to, like, describe my

handles to people that they can't spell and then they never find me.

You can now just scan my barcode.

So I've actually

Craig: Oh, fun.

Barney: work.

Craig: That's brilliant.

Barney: Yeah,

Craig: So he's asked two more.

Let's see.

Is there any actual clowning, brackets, the physical theater thing?

Barney: Sorry, well, meaning

Craig: I'm guessing just sort of the sort of slapstick, sort of in the sexual play.

Barney: Oh, yeah, hell yeah.

I mean, I like to Use a lot of, you know, and mallet analogies,

and silly string, and Seltzer water, and, know, all that stuff.

I mean, yeah, there's physical comedy.

You know Lunas is actually another one that, like, bleeds into clowning a

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: Love playing with balloons.

The whole thing is slapstick y.

So yeah, totally, totally.

I love dumb, silly, goofy slapstick.

And actually, There are people that I know who are into like literal physical

comedy slapstick as a kink kind of have found their way into clowning

from that but on its own are just more into like the budwing kind of

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: slapstick stuff.

Craig: And speaking of other clowns, next question.

Are juggalos hot?

Barney: Sure.

Everyone's hot.

I mean, I don't know.

I if they wear a nose, then.

I would probably think so, yes.

you know, I'm vibes based, so if we get along and you make me laugh, then

I find you attractive, like That's the kind of as I connect if I met a juggler

and I like and I was like they're funny And I like them then yeah sure why not

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: try and just get them to wear a red nose though

Craig: Okay, so we have a question from Steridium.

Oh yeah.

Do you feel like clown fetish is linked to other fetishes, like dolls, or is it

entirely separate in your experience?

Barney: Okay, so I sort of have my big three fetishes,

and I used to separate them

I would say, and clowning is really the only one that me, there's only been

a few times that I've come completely without an element of clowning.

But when I started blending them, I actually really enjoyed

breaking down those barriers.

I think people treat it differently, I tend to find if you do one thing,

you then want the other thing.

So, if you've always blended them, you'll probably find it's more fun to separate

Craig: Yeah,

Barney: Vice versa.

The doll thing.

I used to be terrified of like dolls and marionettes and puppets.

And then I kind of faced that fear recently and it has turned

into a massive puppet fetish.

So I just, I'm I've been looking for a rigger to do this and I've now,

I'm being put in touch with someone who might be able to, to like rig

you know, tie me up so that I can actually be suspended as a marionette.

Craig: Would be so cool.

Barney: It's also just so hot to be like a toy.

I love being an action figure and like being dressed up and not allowed to move

or talk and being like examined, and sort of assessed, and appraised, and fumbled,

and even like passed around, and you know, like auctioned, you know, so yeah,

I think there's a lot of bleed over.

I love the whole Nutcracker vibe.

Yeah, totally, totally.

Craig: like, we have a mutual friend who combined with Hypno, did a lot of stuff

with like the Nutcracker Uniform, which,

Barney: Oh

Craig: oh boy.

Yeah, and again, like, you always find with Hypno and TF, all these different

things really blend into one another.

Barney: Yeah, totally.

Which,

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: really, really cool.

I

Craig: again, it,

Barney: of the opinion that, you know, separation was cool, but

Craig: Yeah, it's like playing with all the toys in the toy box,

both metaphorically and literally.

Barney: Totally!

Make the Pokemon hump the Digimon, yeah, whatever.

Craig: Digimon would so win.

Barney: Duh!

I actually, totally,

Craig: like rabbits with jorts and guns for hands.

Barney: yeah, like, hello, duh!

I mean, I total sidebar, but This show isn't always great, but the death battle,

the death battle show, they did a Pokemon Digimon one and I don't know where they

fucking got that animation, but they like commissioned someone to do the most

insane animation and it was amazing.

They were like, yeah, obviously Digimon would win.

Like Pokemon.

com, Cliff.

Heard it here.

Sorry.

Craig: sorry, it's science.

Barney: It's clown science.

Okay.

Yeah.

Next.

Craig: Yeah, last one, and I feel like we've kind of covered this,

which is Aspiring Dom has asked, Would this count as edge slash fear

play for those with claurophobia?

It's like, I think we've covered that's part of it.

Barney: Yeah.

Yeah.

No, totally.

The caulifobics I think sometimes tend towards the, the horror clown thing.

I recently had Dementio the clown on my podcast and he does a whole like horror

clown look which he says, you know, people find really, really sexy and they, they

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: out of the fear.

Equally people have approached me with like, I don't want a scary looking clown.

I want like a normal looking clown But I find that scary and

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: to get over the fear or whether it's the thrill of being afraid

Yeah, that's that's totally totally something but again, I think phobia

philia like they sort of you know They're two sides to the same coin So

Craig: Oh, totally.

One bleeds into the other and it's about the tension and the buildup and

the being pushed in your boundaries.

Yeah.

Barney: totally

Craig: Totally blend together erotically.

Barney: is is just chemicals and hormones and adrenaline and all

those wonderful things so like Yeah.

Craig: Yeah.

So that's the end of the questions.

Do you have anything else you want to bring up that we've not covered?

Barney: Yeah, I wanted to talk about makeup quickly because I was talking

about this with a drag queen friend of mine, and drag artists often talk

about the, like, the power of of drag, just because put on all the makeup, all

the costumes, whatever, you become a completely different person, and I think

drag is interesting because you know, whether you're sort of, whatever kind of

drag you're doing the, if you're doing gender bending in general, there is,

there tends to be a huge transformation because you're trying to, look in the

mirror and go, wow, that's not me.

so I totally agree that like clowning does the same thing for me, that it

feels like this total transformation.

It feels like armor.

It feels like I put this stuff on my face and then I feel so free and

liberated and powerful and you know, like myself and great and whatever.

But what's interesting is actually technically they're kind of opposites

because Drag makeup is all about by breaking up the lines of you, right?

So let's say you're doing like classic drag queen.

So, know, corset and padding and then heavy contouring makeup,

that kind of thing is all to make you look unrecognizable and vice

versa with drag kings, you know, if you're taping or, or whatever.

and, and even like drawing on facial hair to to disguise the shape of your

face or make it more square or whatever.

Whereas clown makeup is actually, you are not trying to do that at all.

You're trying to look like you, just the most basic, like, I

guess authentic version of you.

Like, so, I mean, you'll notice, you know, my eyebrows are higher than

my real eyebrows, but it's still move with my real eyebrows because

I'm just exaggerating the movement.

The white around the eyes and, and the lips is to exaggerate the

movement of both of those things.

So you can see my face from far away.

And so it's easy.

You know, there's a lot of silent clowns and Again, I love that there's

this whole cultural history there where like, clowning is very, very universal.

And so it doesn't matter what language you speak.

You can do physical comedy and the facial expression tells you everything.

You do not need to, to translate.

And so all of this, you know, the red on the cheeks, it's designed

to like, everything sits exactly where my face naturally moves.

So when you do

Craig: Yeah.

Barney: you're actually learning, you know, you're trying to

observe what parts of your face.

Move where and you're exaggerating them, which I think is I don't know that both

of those kind of The makeup artistry of both of those art forms is so empowering.

But then I think there's also something about I don't know at first I wanted

to really transform and now I'm like no I get to draw this thing out of me

I get to show people that I am this is this is me, you know And so it doesn't

feel like I'm covering myself It feels like I'm drawing myself out and it's

actually like you have to sit there and squint and smile and frown and you

know Become really okay with your face.

There's something really nice and empowering about being like, this is

just my face this is the face I've got this is what it looks like and And

not changing anything about it here.

We're exaggerating it and going with it.

And I don't know, there's something that I really love that there's a

self care, self loving, very kind of body positive elements to it that

I hadn't really considered before.

So yeah, I just thought that was cool.

And I wanted to bring that up at

Craig: Oh, that's great.

No, I hadn't even considered that.

That's amazing.

Yeah, yeah,

Barney: And I mean, sometimes the way to feel best about is to just

exaggerate everything and like.

I gotta say, this is how I feel sexy.

This is how I feel the sexiest.

And, you know, it might seem like I'm putting a lot of stuff on, but actually

I feel really like exposed, you know, it's the titillation of being naked.

Being naked to me is like, okay, I don't care.

It's just does nothing for me.

People can see me naked.

I don't care.

But people seeing me like this is very.

This feels raw and it's very exciting.

Craig: I get that.

Yeah, thank you, that's brilliant.

Barney: This is my penis.

This no stuff penis,

Craig: And now we're getting Freudian with it.

Barney: which is a thing, which

Craig: Mm hmm.

Barney: which is totally a thing.

And also I really, maybe I just need to start this business, but I really want.

Sex toy manufacturers to make sillier things.

Why is that?

Why is there not a dildo that looks like a big red nose?

Why is there not dildos that honk and squeak and you know squirt silly

things and you know, on guys We've got to get more creative and colorful.

Everything is black everything is you know or red or like made to look scary.

Craig: Yeah, yeah.

It's like sex does not have to be serious all the time.

Sex can be noisy and funny and hilarious and joyful.

Barney: it can be stinky.

It can be farty.

It can be, you know embarrassing.

It can be, Silly.

can be honky.

How many words can I think of?

Craig: Adjectives, adjectives, more, more, more.

Yes.

Barney: We'll be here forever if I start, like, cycling through the

Rolodex of clown words in my brain.

Craig: Yes.

Well, we are actually coming up to time, so I think this

is a good place to wind down.

So where can people find you?

Barney: So you can find me online @TStoater on BlueSky and

Twitter or the underscore muckle underscore stoto on Instagram.

Apologies that my Instagram is super bare.

I got banned for a year for no fucking reason, so I haven't posted

a lot of my art, but I've also.

been holding back on the live action.

Twitter is kind of where all my smart is for now until I slowly

move over to blue sky permanently.

And you can catch the Big Top Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you like to listen.

And yeah feel free to reach out and say hi and maybe.

Commission a silly drawing from me.

Craig: Yeah.

I highly recommend it.

Thank you very much for coming on.

This has been wonderful.

Barney: Thank you for having me.

This has been dope.

I also like that.

I did a YouTube video somebody else's channel recently and The lighting setup

was just I forgot that I had a better lighting setup and I actually have a ring

light now So I looked at that footage and I was like, oh no, I Look so bad.

So I'm glad that I managed to actually something where

people can see my face properly

Craig: Yeah, no, it's done a great job.

Like ring lights are brilliant for, even for webcams.

So, as always, listeners.

Thank you for listening and play safe.